Super Bowl LVI - Ohio vs Odell

[Real Deal]

Jon Gruden was 48 ten years ago. He's not some kid, or even an immature adult. He was the most powerful football man in the organization. To Gruden's credit, he's started doing the right thing by resigning.

Yeah and Hulk Hogan was 60 something shouting out the slurs. He's still hulking up and running wild after a brief stint of growing up.

 

[Benway]

Jon Gruden was 48 ten years ago. He's not some kid, or even an immature adult. He was the most powerful football man in the organization. To Gruden's credit, he's started doing the right thing by resigning.

He's younger than me, and I've Never thought of that kind of language as appropriate.
I will point out that people can change.

 

[DirtyDan]

Yeah and Hulk Hogan was 60 something shouting out the slurs. He's still hulking up and running wild after a brief stint of growing up.

More about WWE trying to continue to capitalize on Hulk Hogan because of his name, history, and appeal to old school fans. If it were anyone else, I doubt you could clean that slate.

 

[prf100]

Yeah and Hulk Hogan was 60 something shouting out the slurs. He's still hulking up and running wild after a brief stint of growing up.

So this is to suggest then that Gruden won’t change?

 

[Tlyons]

“I have resigned as Head Coach of the Las Vegas Raiders. I love the Raiders and do not want to be a distraction," Gruden's statement read, per ESPN's Adam Schefter. "Thank you to all the players, coaches, staff, and fans of Raider Nation. I’m sorry, I never meant to hurt anyone.”

Seems like a "let me just say some shit real quick" apology.

Hopefully he just hasn't come to grips with what those words mean for the black and lgbtq+ communities because that is a shit apology.

That's an apology of someone who thinks they didn't really do anything wrong.

Idk maybe he said more and I'm not seeing it.

 

[MediumBaller]

Used to be cancel culture was just called the consequences of your actions.

Eh, if you’re good enough you get plenty of chances. Gruden wasn’t a good coach. Ray Lewis probably murdered a guy and he kept playing. Michael Vick killed a bunch of dogs, went to prison, and he got another chance. Donte Stallworth got drunk and killed a man and that didn’t keep him from playing three more years. Josh Gordon won’t stop doing hella drugs but he still finds a team to sign him every year. Big Ben has probably raped multiple women and he’s enjoyed a nice long career.

Is what Gruden did worse? Doesn’t really matter. If he was an elite coach and not average this probably wouldn’t have ended his career. If he was an elite player and not a coach it wouldn’t have.

 

[Real Deal]

So this is to suggest then that Gruden won’t change?

Honestly, some community work, mental help professionally, Gruden should have an opportunity at earning back his history and repairing his name. I'd hate for someone to lose their life over depression about ruining their own life and not given a chance to fix what's broken.

Does he coach again, probably not. Should he be restored of his history? Yes, if he puts in the work.

Antonio Brown went on a tirade about crackers. Calculated cancelation.

 

[2 For The Brew]

Eh, if you’re good enough you get plenty of chances. Gruden wasn’t a good coach. Ray Lewis probably murdered a guy and he kept playing. Michael Vick killed a bunch of dogs, went to prison, and he got another chance. Donte Stallworth got drunk and killed a man and that didn’t keep him from playing three more years. Josh Gordon won’t stop doing hella drugs but he still finds a team to sign him every year. Big Ben has probably raped multiple women and he’s enjoyed a nice long career.

Is what Gruden did worse? Doesn’t really matter. If he was an elite coach and not average this probably wouldn’t have ended his career. If he was an elite player and not a coach it wouldn’t have.

Tell that to Woody Hayes. He was an elite coach but he crossed the line and was fired immediately. As he should have been.

 

[MediumBaller]

Tell that to Woody Hayes. He was an elite coach but he crossed the line and was fired immediately. As he should have been.

He got fired for throat punching an opposing player during a game. Before that happened, he got away with a bunch of other stuff like punching journalists, cameraman, and, allegedly, one of his players. Bob Knight did all kinds of shit, ending with him choking out a player and assaulting a student, and Texas Tech hired him after IU fired him.

 

[2 For The Brew]

He got fired for throat punching an opposing player during a game. Before that happened, he got away with a bunch of other stuff like punching journalists, cameraman, and, allegedly, one of his players. Bob Knight did all kinds of shit, ending with him choking out a player and assaulting a student, and Texas Tech hired him after IU fired him.

A cynic would say that Woody and Bobby got fired when their careers were going downhill and that they might have skated on their firing offenses if they were coming off National Championship seasons. As for Texas - Bear Bryant ran the football camp from hell in Junction, Texas that nearly killed his kids but that didn’t stop him from becoming a legend. Texans aren’t rational about sports (or to be more accurate, they’re crazier than the rest of us). The NCAA had to shut down SMU football because players had contracts approved by the Governor that were legally enforceable.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

It kills me to say this, but Lamar has been better at coming through late in games than Baker.

Who would you rather have as QB - Lamar or Baker?

The idea that there is some template a QB has to fit to be effective is ridiculous. His threat to run opens up opportunities to pass. If he's not a gifted passer but gets the job done - who cares?

I despise the Ravens, the City of Baltimore and the State of Maryland for stealing our team but Lamar is a highly effective QB playing at MVP level.

The big reason it matters is the playoffs. Because it is remarkably effective in the regular season. And then every year in the playoffs, without fail, he is humiliated.

Again, everyone could accept it in the NBA, but when it comes to the NFL for whatever reason people see a guy light it up in the regular season and just every single year assume it will carry over perfectly to the postseason.

Lamar's shelf life is very short in the NFL and when it matters most he has been a total pumpkin for 3 straight years

How many years in a row does that have to happen before people acknowledge maybe it's not a coincidence that the guy who was unstoppable for so many games in a row just so happened to have that run out at the most inopportune time

 

[Sebastian]

I don't necessarily have an opinion on what happens to Gruden but I just still am baffled by the NFL and where it's 'inexcusable behavior' line is located. I mean, you've got guys like Tyreke Hill, Mixon, Antonio Brown. Hell, even Kareem Hunt. All missed a season at most and then they're right back on the field collecting their millions. Any statement the NFL tries to make on these sorts of matters is just completely meaningless to me

Basically don't get caught.

And don't make it a pattern.

But also, in the case of a possible crime, the NFL has to walk a fine line in punishing someone for something they are acquitted of, or not charged for, without due process.

But it basically comes down to don't get caught, and do not get caught on camera or in writing.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

This.

The mental gymnastics that Browns fans and many on this form use to denigrate Lamar in a sad attempt to justify why he's not an elite QB are Nadia-esque.

Don't know who posted it, but the take "Well, his throws are easier because teams have to cover the run" is beyond stupid. That's the point! That's what makes Lamar such a dangerous weapon.

Oh yeah, and he's about 2 years younger than Baker.

Has he gotten it done in the playoffs yet? Not yet, but neither has any AFC QB not named Mahomes.

It sucks but stop kidding yourself.

Well I think your post is beyond stupid there. so right back at ya!

The whole point is that people praise Lamar the passer. And Lamar the runner is what makes it so easy for Lamar the passer.

He is not an elite QB. But again, let's follow up in january. Gonna be wild if just coincidentally he has his worst game again. Such poor luck

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

People make mistakes 10 years ago, 11 years ago, 3 years ago, take accountability but be given a chance to earn forgiveness.

I would be much more sympathetic to this case if he came right out from the jump and apologized and took steps to make it right.

Instead he basically went down the Beilein slugs route saying that he totally didn't mean any racial undertones by saying a black man had lips the size of tires.

That's skipping the part where he takes accountability.

And really I don't know why he waited for everything else to leak. Get ahead of it, you know the rest is coming out.

I certainly believe in second chances, but in order to get them you have to actually be sorry and like you said, take accountability. I don't really believe that's the case for Gruden.

 

[bs80]

@Jack Brickman

Yeah, and players get 2nd, 3rd, and 4th chances to repair their image. Didn't Incognito do some racial bullying shit? I forget, maybe it wasn't a race issue at all, maybe I'm thinking of another player.

People make mistakes 10 years ago, 11 years ago, 3 years ago, take accountability but be given a chance to earn forgiveness.

I'm kinda in this boat. Society isn't perfect and we are constantly evolving. I grew up in NE Ohio, and from a young age, I was encompassed in a world where racism and hemophobia was a real thing. I still remember in middle/high school there was this dude that was very obviously gay, and he was openly mocked all the time. This was back in the early to mid 1990s, and at least in the area I lived in, not many would bat an eye. I could (and I do!) look back at my younger self in disappointment for being complicit in such behavior. I didn't go so far as to join in, but I'm sure I chuckled with my buddies as it happened. Dude had thick skin and rolled with the punches as far as I knew, but who the fuck knows what kind of emotional toll the poor kid suffered because of it.

Were people like me the bad guys? Yes and no. I was in the wrong, absolutely. Should I have known better? I don't know...maybe? But what I think is most important for society is that we learn and we change accordingly. I would scold the shit out of my own children if they were to act the same way I did. Is that hypocritical? I'm not convinced it is, because as a society, we should be so much more knowledgeable than we were in the past.

I would like to think that I'm continually open-minded and not immune to an educated stance changing my mind. Yes, in 2021, it is pretty clear that racism and homophobia have no place in our society. But even just 10 years ago, I feel like throwing around words like "faggot," especially in a frat boy setting, ended up flying under the radar.

Holy fuck I'm rambling, but look, if we REALLY want society to accept equality for all, we HAVE to be willing to forgive growing pains, so long as the trend is heading in the appropriate direction. We HAVE to allow people to mature and change their minds. So long as people are always going to be judged on what they thought in the past, there isn't much incentive for them to evolve their thinking.

One last thought, I want to emphasize that I don't know Gruden, I don't know what he thought then and I don't know what he thinks now. For all I know, he could totally be a homophobic racist sack of shit to this day. But he could just as easily have evolved along with many of us. I know that many "SJW"s want to bury anyone for any indiscretion at any point in time, but if the idea is to get people to change their minds, and someone does change their mind, why continue to fucking bury that person for the past when he or she has already moved on?