2021 RCF Mock Draft: Discussion, Trades and Miscellany

[Jordan]

Love the Cowboys' pick, @SuperSurge.

 

[Hurl Bruce]

Waiting on @Klisking. He's not open to PMs from me. His name doesn't even populate when I start to type it in.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Waiting on @Klisking. He's not open to PMs from me. His name doesn't even populate when I start to type it in.

I PMed him. His name is "ki" capitalized, like Kyrie Irving is king".

I learned that the hard way last mock draft. So, he is aware and will hopefully put in his pick soon.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I think I'm reading this right...

Daniel Jones Stats & Fantasy Ranking - PlayerProfiler

Daniel Jones player profile featuring career stats, fantasy ranking, & analytics data. See combine scores, SPARQ, measurables, and comparable players.

www.playerprofiler.com

Completion % When Under Pressure = 33%, ranked #30
Completion % With Clean Pocket = 76%, ranked #12.

To me, it seems like OL is a good investment for NYG.

I don't believe that completion percentage means much, and I'm not sure their definitions of "clean pocket" and "under pressure" are valid for the discussion at hand.

For example, if your QB stands there without being touched or rushed for three seconds, and a rusher finally breaks free, is this site considering that play "under pressure"? He had a clean pocket for longer than an NFL QB should. That's not an OL problem--it's a QB problem, but if you call that play "under pressure" then it fits your narrative.

If I'm NYG, and one of the top 5 QB's is available, I'm taking him because there's a chance he could be the guy. There is zero chance Daniel Jones is the guy.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

I don't believe that completion percentage means much, and I'm not sure their definitions of "clean pocket" and "under pressure" are valid for the discussion at hand.

For example, if your QB stands there without being touched or rushed for three seconds, and a rusher finally breaks free, is this site considering that play "under pressure"? He had a clean pocket for longer than an NFL QB should. That's not an OL problem--it's a QB problem, but if you call that play "under pressure" then it fits your narrative.

If I'm NYG, and one of the top 5 QB's is available, I'm taking him because there's a chance he could be the guy. There is zero chance Daniel Jones is the guy.

And the issue isn't Jones completing passes when under pressure.

Jones fumbles the ball at a nearly historic rate. So regardless of if he's a good QB under pressure or not doesn't matter, he's turning the ball over when he gets hit.

Edit: Daniel Jones has 29 fumbles in 26 starts. Combined with his 22 INTs over that same time period....

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

And the issue isn't Jones completing passes when under pressure.

Jones fumbles the ball at a nearly historic rate. So regardless of if he's a good QB under pressure or not doesn't matter, he's turning the ball over when he gets hit.

I'd say that no matter what is going on, if you're potentially the worst QB in the entire NFL under pressure, you're a really bad QB.

The answer isn't to build the greatest offensive line in history in the hopes that they magically never allow you to be pressured.

 

[AZ_]

I don't believe that completion percentage means much, and I'm not sure their definitions of "clean pocket" and "under pressure" are valid for the discussion at hand.

For example, if your QB stands there without being touched or rushed for three seconds, and a rusher finally breaks free, is this site considering that play "under pressure"? He had a clean pocket for longer than an NFL QB should. That's not an OL problem--it's a QB problem, but if you call that play "under pressure" then it fits your narrative.

If I'm NYG, and one of the top 5 QB's is available, I'm taking him because there's a chance he could be the guy. There is zero chance Daniel Jones is the guy.

Yeah, I mean I cannot defend Daniel Jones' play thus far.

But I can defend not wanting the 5th best QB in this draft among the top dozen picks.


At that point, building the OL and putting this offense in the hands of Barkley, the receiving core and a decently improved defense makes sense to me.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Yeah, I mean I cannot defend Daniel Jones' play thus far.

But I can defend not wanting the 5th best QB in this draft among the top dozen picks.


At that point, building the OL and putting this offense in the hands of Barkley, the receiving core and a decently improved defense makes sense to me.

I have no problem with them saying "we don't think Mac Jones can be the guy either, so we'll just take the best player available."

I just don't buy the "we have to do whatever we can to build around Daniel Jones" line of reasoning.

 

[raiders91sc]

I do my homework, homeboy. A couple of thoughts on the 49ers trade up:

1. Lance already conducted his Pro Day, and this trade happened at the same time as the Wilson Pro Day. I was left wondering: Why trade at that moment? Why not wait?

2. It's important to note Jones and Fields would not conduct their Pro Days for a few more days. On Tuesday, the Niners sent bodies to see Jones, not Fields.

3. Reading the tea leaves, I believe the Niners saw enough from Wilson and Lance to believe this draft has three quarterbacks who fit their long-term plans, and it seems Fields was an afterthought.

4. Greg Cosell broke down the issue with Fields pretty well:

“From a physical standpoint, there’s nothing (Fields) can’t do. You’re dealing with a kid who has a big arm, he’s a specimen. He’s a very talented kid and a high level traits guy,” Cosell said. “He kind of tended to be a bit late on some throws. At times he didn’t show a natural feel for the timing and anticipation that’s required. His recognition is a bit slow, I think his field vision needs work.”

5. The fact that Jimmy knows what Shanahan wants out of the quarterback position and is under contract is still a huge positive. What Jimmy can't do - escape pressure, make quick decisions, stay healthy - is why I believe Shanahan would prefer either Wilson or Lance to eventually take the job from Jimmy G.

Mr Keys I said in the nicest way I could that I disagree with pick and not the poster. I see also AZ is teaming up on me. LOL

This Lance kid has thrown 288 passes against div II players in the last 3 years and u guys believe he is a NFL starting QB in year 2 that can "lead" a team to a SB. Not be a ride along but lead. That is kinda putting words in ur mouth but picking 3rd overall the kid better be a tractor not a trailer. That is what SF is looking for right? 3 teams in NFL in the last 20 years had a 5 year window with a great roster. SF is on year 3 and injuries are pilling up.

I agree on some of the things u guys said against Fields. It does seem he is a second slow on his reads and throws. He played Clemson twice and should of beat them both times. 2nd game he put on show and played well in 1st. I know what Fields issues are cause he has played better competition, played 2 seasons and had better coaching. While the Lance kid has limited film vs poor competition. Im gonna pick the known if I think I can fix it and not the unknown.

 

[PITCavsFan]

PFF had the Giants OL ranked 31st of 32 last year.

31. NEW YORK GIANTS​

With one year in the books, the Giants can’t be feeling good about their decision to take Andrew Thomas as the first tackle off the board in last year’s draft, given the season he had compared to the tackles selected after him. Thomas allowed 57 pressures at left tackle this season, 14 more than any other player at the position. He was the only player at the position to be charged with 10 sacks allowed, as well.

As you could guess for a team coming in at second to last on this list, Thomas wasn’t the only problem up front for the Giants. Shane Lemieux and Will Hernandez both allowed pressure rates of at least 8% at left guard, while Cameron Fleming — filling in for the opted-out Nate Solder — allowed the sixth most pressures in the league at the right tackle position.

While it's noble to admit wrong and make corrections, I think it's a bit premature on Jones. You need to give your recent top picks a fair shake before you move on.

It would be more than fair to invest in the position that helps both your 2018 #2 overall pick and 2019 #6 overall pick. Going with OL in the first and with the addition of Golladay at WR, the pressure would be 100% on Jones to prove he can make a career in the league.

To be clear, I'm not defending Jones (he hasn't been good)...I just think he hasn't been given full fair chance yet.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Mr Keys I said in the nicest way I could that I disagree with pick and not the poster. I see also AZ is teaming up on me. LOL

This Lance kid has thrown 288 passes against div II players in the last 3 years and u guys believe he is a NFL starting QB in year 2 that can "lead" a team to a SB. Not be a ride along but lead. That is kinda putting words in ur mouth but picking 3rd overall the kid better be a tractor not a trailer. That is what SF is looking for right? 3 teams in NFL in the last 20 years had a 5 year window with a great roster. SF is on year 3 and injuries are pilling up.

I agree on some of the things u guys said against Fields. It does seem he is a second slow on his reads and throws. He played Clemson twice and should of beat them both times. 2nd game he put on show and played well in 1st. I know what Fields issues are cause he has played better competition, played 2 seasons and had better coaching. While the Lance kid has limited film vs poor competition. Im gonna pick the known if I think I can fix it and not the unknown.

If you think Trey Lance isn't good, or isn't ready, then that's fine.

But the reasons you're using here are simply crutch arguments. Throwing a limited number of passes against D2 competition doesn't mean you can't be good, or that you aren't ready.

Also, Justin Fields's team almost beating Clemson doesn't mean anything about the individual prospect, or his potential for success in the NFL.

I also notice that you start out by claiming you want to talk about the topic, and not be personal, but you abandon that four words later.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

PFF had the Giants OL ranked 31st of 32 last year.



While it's noble to admit wrong and make corrections, I think it's a bit premature on Jones. You need to give your recent top picks a fair shake before you move on.

It would be more than fair to invest in the position that helps both your 2018 #2 overall pick and 2019 #6 overall pick. Going with OL in the first and with the addition of Golladay at WR, the pressure would be 100% on Jones to prove he can make a career in the league.

To be clear, I'm not defending Jones (he hasn't been good)...I just think he hasn't been given full fair chance yet.

Why do bad players need a "full fair chance"?

Should Jacksonville still be trotting out Blake Bortles because they never surrounded him with two top-10 selected tackles?

Should Minnesota have given Christian Ponder more time because he was a high pick?

Daniel Jones isn't good. I have no problem saying that with certainty.

If you want to argue that Slater is the best player on the board, I have no problem with that. I just don't think Daniel Jones leading this team into the future should be the driving force behind the New York front office's decision making.

For what it's worth, I don't think Slater is even a top-three guy on the board right now if you want to talk about offensive line contributions to the run game.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Some players deserve a 2nd shot at it. Baker Mayfield in 2020 is the shining example of "He just needs a decent offensive line".

Daniel Jones hasn't shown anything other than a major turnover problem no matter the offensive line in front of him. I converse with a lot of Giants fans, and most see his fumbling as a major, major problem for the future. Not only that, but one of Jones' biggest advantages is his ability to run on broken plays. If he is simply going to fumble the ball about once per game, then you are resigned to go into the game without Jones biggest advantage or being down 1-0 in the turnover battle.

I think Jones is basically functional level Mitch Trubisky. Sure, he could go stretches of looking good or even great, but when the shit hits the fan, he's totally unreliable.

 

[Surge]

Love the Cowboys' pick, @SuperSurge.

He's everything I could imagine Jerry wanting in a pick. Talent, position of need, name recognition, former player's kid. He's got it all.

 

[Jordan]

He's everything I could imagine Jerry wanting in a pick. Talent, position of need, name recognition, former player's kid. He's got it all.

He is the most technically adept corner that I have seen in this class. He is also one of the better pressing corners that have come out in recent years. Only question mark is his speed, but he is so good at the LoS that I think he can make up for it.