2021 Spring Training Thread

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CATS44

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Agreed, Bimbo.

And its also why the org targets young pitchers who already have fairly clean mechanics that take less tinkering, instead of big power arms.
 

AZ_

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Agreed, Bimbo.

And its also why the org targets young pitchers who already have fairly clean mechanics that take less tinkering, instead of big power arms.

Sort of agree, but I think they're looking for a bit of both.

Look at how Vargas is cleaning up his action in line with this philosophy.

Looking at Vargas now:

Vargas two years ago:
 

AZ_

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Posting shit load of tweets today, I've been going down the Indians rabbit hole today and this is a cool look at the difference in Civale's new look:

 

CDAV45

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sounds like allen might be doc ellis lite
Yeah maybe, but hopefully he isn't high for every start. Doc's no-hitter story is funny as hell. He said at one time Richard Nixon was the umpire and another time Jimmy Hendrix was the batter swinging his guitar. Funny funny shit.
 

LL3

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Some of you fail to realize how much work it takes to "simplify" anything with regards to mechanics, whether hitting or pitching, and the dangers that could come of it.

Years and years of muscle memory and habits don't go away in a flash. Why a lot of guys try to change things but it ends up melting back to their old form or some kind of ugly hybrid (Cal Ripken Jr's batting stance, for example).

Being able to completely remove and consistently hide the old mechanics from the new mechanics is something this organization has preached for years before trotting guys out in high stress situations or letting guys just go and play as much as possible, strictly when talking about guys at the MLB level.

Why Clevinger was in AAA as long as he was so he could show he could keep his mechanics clean in the heat of a game. Why Cookie stayed in the bullpen as long as he did, even while he was showing the guy he is now. Why Naquin, coming off a year he contended for ROTY, spent so much time in the minors the following year. And I chose those 3 specific examples because those are 3 examples of guys who "simplified" their mechanics.

Trotting guys out before mechanical changes are cemented at the MLB level is a good way to ruin a young player.

My minor expertise is in volleyball, which is another mechanics heavy sport...some of the language is similar, and we too are always trying to “clean up” and “simplify”. Repeating one’s motion seems like a simple enough phrase/task, but as Bimbo said it is very difficult to leave old habits, and muscle memory behind even when a player intellectually “knows” they should be doing otherwise. It is always an impressive accomplishment (mentally and physically) for a player to truly make a switch and maintain it. Kudos to the coaches, of course, but it is the player that has to make that journey.
 

WhoAzcue

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Kudos to the coaches, of course, but it is the player that has to make that journey.
And there's no way to overestimate the importance of getting live action like Civale and Allen did yesterday and getting good results. Physical changes are one thing to work through, but there's the mental component: having faith and confidence that you're on the right track. This is particularly important for Allen who, unlike Civale, hasn't really succeeded at the major league level to any degree. His changes, in my mind, were even more dramatic than Civale, and I was really rooting for him to get some positive feedback yesterday, and he got it. Allen used to rush his motion to the plate, which he probably felt added to his deception, but to me, it meant he wasn't finishing his pitches and his command suffered. He looked so much more controlled and smooth in his delivery yesterday and his pitches were crisp. As excited as I am by Civale, I always believed he'd figure it out; Allen needed something to hang onto, and it seems he's bought in. Yesterday will only help to cement that buy-in. He pitched against some front-line players and did very, very well. There's a place for an improved Logan Allen this year for sure.
 

MadThinker88

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And there's no way to overestimate the importance of getting live action like Civale and Allen did yesterday and getting good results. ....l. There's a place for an improved Logan Allen this year for sure.
@WhoAzcue
What role do you envision for Logan S Allen in 2021??

Perhaps its bias (or older age) on my part but I am not seeing him in the CLE rotation. I find it very doubtful (even with good health) that CLE gets on avg 32 starts from each SP with an avg of 6 IP per outing..

I suspect that CLE will utilize long guys (2 of Plutko/ Logan S Allen/ Sam Hentges/ Scott Moss) on a weekly basis all season to soak up 2 or 3 innings per appearance (I'm figuring 2 times a week, 1 per long guy) so that the starter load is reduced over the course of the season. If both long guys are getting a combined 5 innings each week (roughly 20 IP per month & 120 IP combined over the course of the season), the starters could remain fresher and hopefully get all the way thru the season..

Your thoughts??
 

WhoAzcue

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@WhoAzcue
What role do you envision for Logan S Allen in 2021??

Perhaps its bias (or older age) on my part but I am not seeing him in the CLE rotation. I find it very doubtful (even with good health) that CLE gets on avg 32 starts from each SP with an avg of 6 IP per outing..

I suspect that CLE will utilize long guys (2 of Plutko/ Logan S Allen/ Sam Hentges/ Scott Moss) on a weekly basis all season to soak up 2 or 3 innings per appearance (I'm figuring 2 times a week, 1 per long guy) so that the starter load is reduced over the course of the season. If both long guys are getting a combined 5 innings each week (roughly 20 IP per month & 120 IP combined over the course of the season), the starters could remain fresher and hopefully get all the way thru the season..
I guess I just see less long man action and more skipped starts, with lots of travel between Columbus and Cleveland for the AAA staff. Plutko has to be kept around, so he'll be the long guy out of the pen, but all the other guys--Allen, Moss, Hentges--should be taking regular turns in Columbus getting ready for spot starts in CLE, maybe slotted against teams which are particularly left-handed heavy. There's lots of room for creativity, but I don't know how much Francona and Willis will employ...
 
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WhoAzcue

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Jet with a sharp single to right against Kimbrel. Good for him. Hernandez splits the LC gap with a double to score DJ.
 

bronko

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Yeah maybe, but hopefully he isn't high for every start. Doc's no-hitter story is funny as hell. He said at one time Richard Nixon was the umpire and another time Jimmy Hendrix was the batter swinging his guitar. Funny funny shit.
 

MadThinker88

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I guess I just see less long man action and more skipped starts, with lots of travel between Columbus and Cleveland for the AAA staff. Plutko has to be kept around, so he'll be the long guy out of the pen, but all the other guys--Allen, Moss, Hentges--should be taking regular turns in Columbus getting ready for spot starts in CLE, maybe slotted against teams which are particularly left-handed heavy. There's lots of room for creativity, but I don't know how much Francona and Willis will employ...
I understand you point & thinking of the AAA shuttle but getting regular work with Columbus is also adding IP/ pitches on the arm of the person going up/down..

There are a handful of guys I would rather see getting their work in MLB/ CLE than at some spot in the minors..
Creativity (throughout the entire system) will be needed so a spike in pitcher arm/ elbow/ shoulder injuries can be avoided...
 

jup

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Posting shit load of tweets today, I've been going down the Indians rabbit hole today and this is a cool look at the difference in Civale's new look:

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What matters is where the ball is relative to the elbow at torso rotation.

As long as your hand is at or inside your elbow (inside 90 degrees) when the torso goes into rotation (Civlae '21), the stress on your elbow is reduced tremendously.

When your hand is outside your elbow (outside 90 degrees Civale '20) at torso rotation, the forearm/hand/ball makes a weighted lever arm that exerts the force on the elbow through torso rotation. Think of it like a pry bar (the lever arm) prying the joint apart.

The elbow is only designed to work in one plane (hand towards mouth) but in pitching the force is applied 90 degrees to that direction. When the joint is pried apart because the force is to great only the ligament is holding it together - then a pop, then TJ
 
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Bobby Bradley hits 3 run BOMB... pushing the Tribe lead to 8-4... off Dillon Maples..
 

Criznit

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Bradley with another jack... 1st base is his too lose. Keep it going Bobby! Oh and if you want to be called Bob, just tell us!!!
 

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