2021 Trade Ideas and Deadline talk!

[hockeyjohn]

Don't misunderstand: I'd prefer to hold onto Amed at this point, but tell me how they navigate the budget to add Ketel Marte & his contract for this year & the next 3 seasons. This is where the CLE FO has done a great job for years ... working within the parameters they were given.

Its for the monetary reasons I think Mitch Haniger is better target for the Tribe. Fills a need now & next season without as much of a impact on the budget..

The player cost on Haniger will not be as bad too. I agree that Haniger is a more realistic trade goal than Marte.

 

[hockeyjohn]

I like Haniger, but how does he fit into an OF that has Naylor, Rosario, Luplow and to a lesser extend H.Ramirez in it?.. Unless you trade.. Naylor maybe? Marte takes over CF now and E.Rosario's salary next season. Throw Amed in LF and run with Arias/Freeman at 2nd/SS? Or Amed at 2nd or SS?

So many possibilities.

Naylor may still need to be an option at 1B. Bradley has had a good start, but it is far than proven that he is the answer at 1B.

 

[CDAV45]

He (Amed) is also one of our best hitters at the moment. I don't think you can trade him unless you are 90%+ convinced this is just a hot flash and not a "breakout".. Pretty fascinated with watching this unfold, everchanging landscape so who knows how things will be looking in 2-3 weeks.

Absolutely! The idea isn't that Amed will become more valuable than Ketel in short order, but you wouldn't want to sell low on Amed either. Clearly Amed is a talented player even if he doesn't have Marte's power. Similar players in many other aspects really.

 

[CDAV45]

The player cost on Haniger will not be as bad too. I agree that Haniger is a more realistic trade goal than Marte.

I agree John, but how does Haniger fit in? Love his bat and would take it over any OFer we currently have. A lot of good ideas being bantered about, but making the pieces fit is challenging.

 

[MadThinker88]

I like Haniger, but how does he fit into a corner OF that has Naylor, Rosario, Luplow and to a lesser extend H.Ramirez in it?.. Unless you trade.. Naylor maybe? Marte takes over CF now and E.Rosario's salary next season. In 2022, throw Amed in LF and run with Arias/Freeman at 2nd/SS? Or Amed at 2nd or SS?

So many possibilities.

@Criznit Please backup... no way are they trading for/ getting both Ketel Marte AND Mitch Haniger this season. I was suggesting Haniger alone as a bat to be added. Your talking about keeping Amed, adding K Marte & then trying to figure where Haniger might fit. That math does not work.

I don't see Josh Naylor getting dealt as he is the primary backup/ full time replacement at 1B IF Bobby Bradley fails again at 1B. So far the results have been encouraging & good. Lets see what the rest of the season brings first. I know some want to see Nolan Jones at 1B, but to this point he has played 1 game at 1B in AAA this season.

Are we convinced Bradley Zimmer & Mercado can handle/ hold down CF the rest of this year (& next). I am not & that is where keeping & utilizing Amer R in CF makes sense.

Even if the Tribe moves on from Eddie R & Cesar H after this season, their current costs (@ $13M) are being absorbed already by the cost increases due R Perez (+1.5M from this season)/ JRam (+1.6M from this season)/ Shane Bieber & others (Reyes & Luplow) entering arbitration. Amed R & Hedges are already in the arbitration process so their costs are likely going up.
Also keep in mind that Harold Ramirez/ Cal Qunatrill/ Josh Naylor all have a chance of getting Super 2 after this season (impacting wage for next year).

When considering next season (a different but related plan) assuming Tyler Freeman is not dealt, he likely starts 2022 in the minors, giving Owen Miller the 1st chance to start the year at 2B. One of Gimenez or Arias is at SS to start the season so Amed covers CF full time for CLE in 2022. Freeman likely comes up in June 2022 to replace whomever is faltering at 2B or SS..

At this point I am not convinced both Harold Ramirez & Jordan Luplow are still with the club next season given the coming roster crunch. Their continued performance this year will go a long way to determining if 1 or both are still here for 2022. Until that happens I am planning on a 40 man opening from them.

 

[Criznit]

@Criznit Please backup... no way are they trading for/ getting both Ketel Marte AND Mitch Haniger this season. I was suggesting Haniger alone as a bat to be added. Your talking about keeping Amed, adding K Marte & then trying to figure where Haniger might fit. That math does not work.

I don't see Josh Naylor getting dealt as he is the primary backup/ full time replacement at 1B IF Bobby Bradley fails again at 1B. So far the results have been encouraging & good. Lets see what the rest of the season brings first. I know some want to see Nolan Jones at 1B, but to this point he has played 1 game at 1B in AAA this season.

Are we convinced Bradley Zimmer & Mercado can handle/ hold down CF the rest of this year (& next). I am not & that is where keeping & utilizing Amer R in CF makes sense.

Even if the Tribe moves on from Eddie R & Cesar H after this season, their current costs (@ $13M) are being absorbed already by the cost increases due R Perez (+1.5M from this season)/ JRam (+1.6M from this season)/ Shane Bieber & others (Reyes & Luplow) entering arbitration. Amed R & Hedges are already in the arbitration process so their costs are likely going up.
Also keep in mind that Harold Ramirez/ Cal Qunatrill/ Josh Naylor all have a chance of getting Super 2 after this season (impacting wage for next year).

When considering next season (a different but related plan) assuming Tyler Freeman is not dealt, he likely starts 2022 in the minors, giving Owen Miller the 1st chance to start the year at 2B. One of Gimenez or Arias is at SS to start the season so Amed covers CF full time for CLE in 2022. Freeman likely comes up in June 2022 to replace whomever is faltering at 2B or SS..

At this point I am not convinced both Harold Ramirez & Jordan Luplow are still with the club next season given the coming roster crunch. Their continued performance this year will go a long way to determining if 1 or both are still here for 2022. Until that happens I am planning on a 40 man opening from them.

Sorry - should have started a new paragraph.. Did not mean to imply it would be both... I just see Haniger getting squeezed in whereas Marte seems a more natural fit.

 

[MadThinker88]

Sorry - should have started a new paragraph.. Did not mean to imply it would be both... I just see Haniger getting squeezed in whereas Marte seems a more natural fit.

Ok, but do you see where the money of Eddie R & Cesar H is already gone without an addition of either Marte or Haniger??

Recognizing that, its much easier to retain Amed R & add the cheaper Haniger (within the budget) then to keep Amed R & add in $26+M over the next 3 seasons with KMarte..

 

[Criznit]

Ok, but do you see where the money of Eddie R & Cesar H is already gone without an addition of either Marte or Haniger??

Recognizing that, its much easier to retain Amed R & add the cheaper Haniger (within the budget) then to keep Amed R & add in $26+M over the next 3 seasons with KMarte..

I do to a degree.. I don't think they bring back Berto without a new deal though. If they do exercise Bertos option, maybe Hedges ends up on the move. It's hard me to see the tribe keeping both those guys without working something out. It's awesome to have 2 catchers so gifted behind the plate, but its a pretty steep price for a team like the tribe.

I think Amed is our SS going forward at least for 2021. Moving him "back" to CF for a playoff/post season run sounds risky to me. Lining him up at 2nd or OF/LF in 2022 though...

Marte might be an unreasonable target in reality, just seems to check a lot of boxes in my eyes.

 

[CDAV45]

@Criznit Please backup... no way are they trading for/ getting both Ketel Marte AND Mitch Haniger this season. I was suggesting Haniger alone as a bat to be added. Your talking about keeping Amed, adding K Marte & then trying to figure where Haniger might fit. That math does not work.

I don't see Josh Naylor getting dealt as he is the primary backup/ full time replacement at 1B IF Bobby Bradley fails again at 1B. So far the results have been encouraging & good. Lets see what the rest of the season brings first. I know some want to see Nolan Jones at 1B, but to this point he has played 1 game at 1B in AAA this season.

Are we convinced Bradley Zimmer & Mercado can handle/ hold down CF the rest of this year (& next). I am not & that is where keeping & utilizing Amer R in CF makes sense.

Even if the Tribe moves on from Eddie R & Cesar H after this season, their current costs (@ $13M) are being absorbed already by the cost increases due R Perez (+1.5M from this season)/ JRam (+1.6M from this season)/ Shane Bieber & others (Reyes & Luplow) entering arbitration. Amed R & Hedges are already in the arbitration process so their costs are likely going up.
Also keep in mind that Harold Ramirez/ Cal Qunatrill/ Josh Naylor all have a chance of getting Super 2 after this season (impacting wage for next year).

When considering next season (a different but related plan) assuming Tyler Freeman is not dealt, he likely starts 2022 in the minors, giving Owen Miller the 1st chance to start the year at 2B. One of Gimenez or Arias is at SS to start the season so Amed covers CF full time for CLE in 2022. Freeman likely comes up in June 2022 to replace whomever is faltering at 2B or SS..

At this point I am not convinced both Harold Ramirez & Jordan Luplow are still with the club next season given the coming roster crunch. Their continued performance this year will go a long way to determining if 1 or both are still here for 2022. Until that happens I am planning on a 40 man opening from them.

Things are very hazy for me right now in terms of roster make-up and looking toward next season. Why would we want Zimmer and/or Mercado to hold down CF for the remainder of the season if Amed is our future CFer? Would it not be more prudent to get Gimenez back up here ASAP, or maybe even Freeman? Maybe Marte could be a good fit if they're willing to pay the price. So who's the better SS, Ketel or Amed?

Maybe it's easier and clearer just to make a list of the players that I don't think will be on the roster next season, are expendable, or likely to get traded so here it goes:
1. Eddie Rosario
2. Cesar Hernandez
3. Roberto Perez
4. Bradley Zimmer
5. Jordan Luplow
6. Yu Chang
7. Blake Parker
8. Zach Plesac
9. Rene Rivera

I'm very curious to see how wrong I actually am.

 

[MadThinker88]

I do to a degree.. I don't think they bring back Berto without a new deal though. If they do exercise Bertos option, maybe Hedges ends up on the move. It's hard me to see the tribe keeping both those guys without working something out. It's awesome to have 2 catchers so gifted behind the plate, but its a pretty steep price for a team like the tribe.

I think Amed is our SS going forward at least for 2021. Moving him "back" to CF for a playoff/post season run sounds risky to me. Lining him up at 2nd or OF/LF in 2022 though...

Marte might be an unreasonable target in reality, just seems to check a lot of boxes in my eyes.

I agree that stability is preferred but if neither Zimmer or Mercado can get the job done (especially in the field), Amed would head back to CF during this season & one of Gimenez/ Arias/ Clement/ O Miller (ie someone already on the 40 man roster) would get the chance to hold down SS at least defensively.

Otherwise, Amed is the CF in 2022.

Improved D (across the INF & in the OF) does a lot to help out the pitching staff. Take the Friday nite game from Seattle's perspective or last weekend in Baltimore. Balls that a solid or good CF should catch dropped in & resulted in runs scoring instead of getting out of an inning with less/ no damage. All because D was lacking in CF. Realistically neither Luplow or Harold Ramirez should be in CF moving forward.

 

[CDAV45]

Ok, but do you see where the money of Eddie R & Cesar H is already gone without an addition of either Marte or Haniger??

Recognizing that, its much easier to retain Amed R & add the cheaper Haniger (within the budget) then to keep Amed R & add in $26+M over the next 3 seasons with KMarte..

There is $22.6M freed up when Eddie Rosario and Blake Parker are gone, and the options of Perez and Hernandez are declined/traded(Hernandez). They could also deal Wittgren and save another $2M+ bringing the total to more than $24M off the books of the already lowest team payroll in the league of $52M.

What does any of that mean? I really don't know without having an idea of what the limit is for the 2022 payroll. Maybe, just maybe they can sit comfortably at $80M. If that is the case then the $52M being paid this season minus the $24 coming off the books would give them $50M+ to pay for arbitration raises and other expenditures. If payroll only goes up to $60M for 22 there will still be $30M+ to pay for arbitration raises plus any acquisitions. Marte is owed $8M next season and Haniger is making a little over $3M this season so what could he reasonably expect for a raise in 22? The point is that I don't think there would be a payroll issue by adding Marte and Haniger if that were to happen, and I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell that it will.

 

[MadThinker88]

Things are very hazy for me right now in terms of roster make-up and looking toward next season. Why would we want Zimmer and/or Mercado to hold down CF for the remainder of the season if Amed is our future CFer? Would it not be more prudent to get Gimenez back up here ASAP, or maybe even Freeman? Maybe Marte could be a good fit if they're willing to pay the price. So who's the better SS, Ketel or Amed?

Maybe it's easier and clearer just to make a list of the players that I don't think will be on the roster next season, are expendable, or likely to get traded so here it goes:
1. Eddie Rosario
2. Cesar Hernandez
3. Roberto Perez
4. Bradley Zimmer
5. Jordan Luplow
6. Yu Chang
7. Blake Parker
8. Zach Plesac
9. Rene Rivera

I'm very curious to see how wrong I actually am.

Most of the haze is from trying to consider & think about the unknown (guys not in the organization at this point).
Deal with who is in the organization at this point, it gets easier.

A couple of the guys on the list won't make it thru the 2021 season on the 40 man (Blake Parker/ Rene Rivera) unless more injuries.

 

[Criznit]

I agree that stability is preferred but if neither Zimmer or Mercado can get the job done (especially in the field), Amed would head back to CF during this season & one of Gimenez/ Arias/ Clement/ O Miller (ie someone already on the 40 man roster) would get the chance to hold down SS at least defensively.

Otherwise, Amed is the CF in 2022.

Improved D (across the INF & in the OF) does a lot to help out the pitching staff. Take the Friday nite game from Seattle's perspective or last weekend in Baltimore. Balls that a solid or good CF should catch dropped in & resulted in runs scoring instead of getting out of an inning with less/ no damage. All because D was lacking in CF. Realistically neither Luplow or Harold Ramirez should be in CF moving forward.

I agree, no more Harold in CF (really he is a poor man's DH) but how confident are we in Amed being average/plus in CF right now? Actually, when was the last time he lined up out there? I'll check, 5/18.

I think they decided Amed will play SS for now. Maybe Gimenez forces his way back on the roster, hard to say. But I do not see them moving Amed back to CF this year as long as he is producing at the plate. Also he hasn't been a terrible SS this year, but not great and it's definitely not ideal "long term".

It's hard to say how big a pill they are willing to swallow on D. Right now it appears they have decided it will be Zimmer in CF and Amed at SS. In trade terms how we/the FO approaches/decides on an upgrade really fascinates me.

 

[hockeyjohn]

I agree John, but how does Haniger fit in? Love his bat and would take it over any OFer we currently have. A lot of good ideas being bantered about, but making the pieces fit is challenging.

That is why the next month will be very interesting for the Indians. Can Bradley make it at 1B? Will Zimmer take advantage of this last opportunity in CF? What we see will determine the deadline.

 

[hockeyjohn]

Things are very hazy for me right now in terms of roster make-up and looking toward next season. Why would we want Zimmer and/or Mercado to hold down CF for the remainder of the season if Amed is our future CFer? Would it not be more prudent to get Gimenez back up here ASAP, or maybe even Freeman? Maybe Marte could be a good fit if they're willing to pay the price. So who's the better SS, Ketel or Amed?

Maybe it's easier and clearer just to make a list of the players that I don't think will be on the roster next season, are expendable, or likely to get traded so here it goes:
1. Eddie Rosario
2. Cesar Hernandez
3. Roberto Perez
4. Bradley Zimmer
5. Jordan Luplow
6. Yu Chang
7. Blake Parker
8. Zach Plesac
9. Rene Rivera

I'm very curious to see how wrong I actually am.

I agree with most of your list except for Roberto Perez and Zach Plesac. I don't see how they can move Plesac until more of our young pitching shows that they are ready.