2022-2023 Regular Season: A New Power Rises in the East

[buzzdog]

What about Cedi? He's shooting 48% overall, 40% on 3's, and leads the team in on/off at +17.5. You're playing him ahead of Stevens? The Cavs are -20.3 points per 100 possessions when he is on the floor - worst on the team.

I just think Cedi is better off the bench. I think when he gets into the starting lineup it affects him in a less than positive way and he starts trying to do too much and play beyond his ability. Maybe he can mature out of that and if he ever does I could consider him as a starting SF. Even if he earned starts I would have a quick hook for his ice cold nights, which I think are inevitable.

But Wade and Stevens give really solid, physical defense and to me that's more important. Stevens is showing signs of becoming more reliable on catch and shoot threes, and Wade is a proven commodity. I value their defense more, and there's little to no drop off offensively either especially when we already have a lot of mouths to feed.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

I just think Cedi is better off the bench. I think when he gets into the starting lineup it affects him in a less than positive way and he starts trying to do too much and play beyond his ability. Maybe he can mature out of that and if he ever does I could consider him as a starting SF. Even if he earned starts I would have a quick hook for his ice cold nights, which I think are inevitable.

But Wade and Stevens give really solid, physical defense and to me that's more important. Stevens is showing signs of becoming more reliable on catch and shoot threes, and Wade is a proven commodity. I value their defense more, and there's little to no drop off offensively either especially when we already have a lot of mouths to feed.

Updated after last night. I think people’s eyes might be lying to them, or the LeVert bias is skewing their perception of what’s happening on the floor. Cavs are nearly 10 pts better defensively with LeVert in the starting lineup over Stevens.

Garland, Mitchell, Stevens, Mobley, Allen:
Min: 63
ORTG: 111.3
DRTG: 116.9
Net: -5.6

Garland, Mitchell, LeVert, Mobley, Allen:
Min: 106
ORTG: 106.3
DRTG: 107.2
Net: -.9

Hear me out, but what if the reason things appeared a little clunky at times on offense was they were still figuring out how to play together after Garland missing the start of the season? I will be interested to see how these lineups progress when LeVert returns.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

The Cavs are averaging 115 points per game, which is 8th in the league. That is despite ranking 27th in pace of play and 24th in field goal attempts per game. That shows how efficient they've been shooting the ball, ranking 13th in 2-point percentage and 2nd in 3-point percentage.

They take fewer shots than most teams but score more points. They're also 7th in made free throws per game.

This is despite Garland missing eight games (more or less) and starting LeVert most of the time even though that is not their ideal lineup.

It looks to me like they're really figuring out how they want to run the half-court offense. They're making good decisions on when to take the shot and when to make one more pass. They're not forcing up contested 3's. A very high percentage of their shots are either layups or floaters, dunks or short jump hooks by bigs, or uncontested 3's. Garland and Mitchell are creating a lot of high percentage shots, either for themselves or for teammates.

Teams are starting to blitz Garland with a double team and trap him but he's seeing it coming and getting the ball to Allen or Mobley on the roll before he's trapped, resulting in a 4-on-3 situation and a dunk or easy shot.

When Love, LeVert, and Rubio are healthy there will be even more options, but the starters seem to be getting better at learning through trial and error what works and fine tuning the half-court offense.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Updated after last night. I think people’s eyes might be lying to them, or the LeVert bias is skewing their perception of what’s happening on the floor. Cavs are nearly 10 pts better defensively with LeVert in the starting lineup over Stevens.

Garland, Mitchell, Stevens, Mobley, Allen:
Min: 63
ORTG: 111.3
DRTG: 116.9
Net: -5.6

Garland, Mitchell, LeVert, Mobley, Allen:
Min: 106
ORTG: 106.3
DRTG: 107.2
Net: -.9

Hear me out, but what if the reason things appeared a little clunky at times on offense was they were still figuring out how to play together after Garland missing the start of the season? I will be interested to see how these lineups progress when LeVert returns.

I prefer Garland, Mitchell, Wade, Mobley, and Allen but that lineup has never been on the floor. I think we'll see it soon, however.

However, the lineup of Mitchell, LeVert, Wade, Mobley, and Allen (which is the second most used lineup due to Garland's eye injury) has outscored opponents by 24.5 points per 100 possessions according to cleaningtheglass.com.

Sub in Cedi for Wade and that lineup is a +21.5.

LeVert at the 2 and either Cedi or Wade at the 3 works when combined with Mitchell, Mobley, and Allen.

Mitchell, LeVert, Wade, Love, and Allen is a +73.5 in 36 possessions. The same lineup with Cedi in for Wade is a +41.8.

AFAIC the LeVert at small forward experiment is over. I think JBB gets that as well. He's doing a great job when playing the 2 next to Garland and Mitchell, however.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Looking at the Cavs' on/off individual numbers so far, the leaders are Cedi (+17.5), Wade (+15.3) and Love (+10.6). No wonder the Cavs' bench is ranks 2nd in the NBA (+5.5).

The interesting guy to me is Mobley, who is second last at -17.2 points per 100 possessions. The Cavs are 12.9 points BETTER defensively with Mobley on the bench and 4.3 points better offensively. Mobley has a reputation of being a great defensive player and he is among the league leaders in contested 3-point shots, but the numbers indicate the Cavs are much worse defensively when he is on the floor.

That doesn't seem right because we've seen Evan make some spectacular defensive plays, but the numbers are the numbers. The best defenders according to on/off are Dean Wade (11.8 points better defensively when he is on the floor) and Jarrett Allen (11.0 points better).

It's not that Mobley is killing the team - the Cavs are 1.3 points better than their opponents when he is in the game. It's that they are way better when he is out. When Love is on the floor the Cavs are 12.8 points better. When Love is playing power forward the Cavs are 20.1 points better.

Both Mobley and Love spend some time at center, so if we break out just the power forward numbers, when Love is on the floor the Cavs win 120.4 to 100.3 per 100 possessions, or +20.1. When Mobley is at the 4 the Cavs are even, 113.6 to 113.7. Both the offense and defense are better when Love is at the 4, but especially the defense.

I'm shocked because we all see Love get blown by and also give up layups and dunks because he can't elevate, while Mobley makes awesome blocks and seems to be much better at moving his feet and keeping the ball handler away from the paint. But I've also seen him give up a lot of layups. We'll just have to keep an eye on these numbers as the season progresses.

Mobley commits a lot of turnovers, more than Love. His points per shot attempt and assist rate are lower. Love is making 41% of his 3's while Evan has no 3-point shot - yet. Love is also a better free throw shooter and defensive rebounder. Mobley is better at offensive rebounds, steals, and blocks -things that require quickness, length, and jumping ability.

Love's shooting and passing skills are much better and surprisingly the Cavs are better defensively with Love on the floor than Mobley. My guess is that with 14 NBA seasons under his belt Love sees things much quicker than Evan and probably plays better team defense, but maybe not as well individually.

I noticed that Love was the only player on the Cavs who was stepping out and preventing the ball handler from coming around screens with clean looks at the basket. He "shows hard" and forces the ball back to the other defender or makes him retreat, giving his defender time to get around the screen. That's how I was taught to defend the screen when I played. Now I see other Cavs starting to show hard in certain situations.

I think as we get deeper into the season Mobley's numbers will improve. We'll see. Last night against Portland Jarrett Allen was a +19 while Wade and Osman were both +17. Okoro was +16. Mobley was +0.0.

 

[Prof123]

Looking at the Cavs' on/off individual numbers so far, the leaders are Cedi (+17.5), Wade (+15.3) and Love (+10.6). No wonder the Cavs' bench is ranks 2nd in the NBA (+5.5).

The interesting guy to me is Mobley, who is second last at -17.2 points per 100 possessions. The Cavs are 12.9 points BETTER defensively with Mobley on the bench and 4.3 points better offensively. Mobley has a reputation of being a great defensive player and he is among the league leaders in contested 3-point shots, but the numbers indicate the Cavs are much worse defensively when he is on the floor.

That doesn't seem right because we've seen Evan make some spectacular defensive plays, but the numbers are the numbers. The best defenders according to on/off are Dean Wade (11.8 points better defensively when he is on the floor) and Jarrett Allen (11.0 points better).

It's not that Mobley is killing the team - the Cavs are 1.3 points better than their opponents when he is in the game. It's that they are way better when he is out. When Love is on the floor the Cavs are 12.8 points better. When Love is playing power forward the Cavs are 20.1 points better.

Both Mobley and Love spend some time at center, so if we break out just the power forward numbers, when Love is on the floor the Cavs win 120.4 to 100.3 per 100 possessions, or +20.1. When Mobley is at the 4 the Cavs are even, 113.6 to 113.7. Both the offense and defense are better when Love is at the 4, but especially the defense.

I'm shocked because we all see Love get blown by and also give up layups and dunks because he can't elevate, while Mobley makes awesome blocks and seems to be much better at moving his feet and keeping the ball handler away from the paint. But I've also seen him give up a lot of layups. We'll just have to keep an eye on these numbers as the season progresses.

Mobley commits a lot of turnovers, more than Love. His points per shot attempt and assist rate are lower. Love is making 41% of his 3's while Evan has no 3-point shot - yet. Love is also a better free throw shooter and defensive rebounder. Mobley is better at offensive rebounds, steals, and blocks -things that require quickness, length, and jumping ability.

Love's shooting and passing skills are much better and surprisingly the Cavs are better defensively with Love on the floor than Mobley. My guess is that with 14 NBA seasons under his belt Love sees things much quicker than Evan and probably plays better team defense, but maybe not as well individually.

I noticed that Love was the only player on the Cavs who was stepping out and preventing the ball handler from coming around screens with clean looks at the basket. He "shows hard" and forces the ball back to the other defender or makes him retreat, giving his defender time to get around the screen. That's how I was taught to defend the screen when I played. Now I see other Cavs starting to show hard in certain situations.

I think as we get deeper into the season Mobley's numbers will improve. We'll see. Last night against Portland Jarrett Allen was a +19 while Wade and Osman were both +17. Okoro was +16. Mobley was +0.0.

 

[Prof123]

You hinted at it, but Love also takes a lot charges, one of the top players in the league at doing so. I am sure Love's experience helps him in this, as well as knowing he cannot elevate to block shots. Mobley and Allen don't take charges -- they just rise vertically to challenge shots.

As for the +/- numbers, could part of it be that Mobley is playing against starters, whereas Love comes off the bench and mostly plays against backups?

 

[Jscc]

Mitchell is built like a brickhouse. Look at those shoulders compared to JA's.

 

[Jordan]

I’ve got to be honest, this is the most fun I’ve had watching the Cavs since the title. It’s just a likable group of players with really complimentary skillsets.

 

[Dr No]

I’ve got to be honest, this is the most fun I’ve had watching the Cavs since the title. It’s just a likable group of players with really complimentary skillsets.

Last year was fun too. Watching the group outperform expectations while being totally likable doesn’t happen often

 

[Cement]

 

[Jordan]

Looking at the Cavs' on/off individual numbers so far, the leaders are Cedi (+17.5), Wade (+15.3) and Love (+10.6). No wonder the Cavs' bench is ranks 2nd in the NBA (+5.5).

The interesting guy to me is Mobley, who is second last at -17.2 points per 100 possessions. The Cavs are 12.9 points BETTER defensively with Mobley on the bench and 4.3 points better offensively. Mobley has a reputation of being a great defensive player and he is among the league leaders in contested 3-point shots, but the numbers indicate the Cavs are much worse defensively when he is on the floor.

That doesn't seem right because we've seen Evan make some spectacular defensive plays, but the numbers are the numbers. The best defenders according to on/off are Dean Wade (11.8 points better defensively when he is on the floor) and Jarrett Allen (11.0 points better).

It's not that Mobley is killing the team - the Cavs are 1.3 points better than their opponents when he is in the game. It's that they are way better when he is out. When Love is on the floor the Cavs are 12.8 points better. When Love is playing power forward the Cavs are 20.1 points better.

Both Mobley and Love spend some time at center, so if we break out just the power forward numbers, when Love is on the floor the Cavs win 120.4 to 100.3 per 100 possessions, or +20.1. When Mobley is at the 4 the Cavs are even, 113.6 to 113.7. Both the offense and defense are better when Love is at the 4, but especially the defense.

I'm shocked because we all see Love get blown by and also give up layups and dunks because he can't elevate, while Mobley makes awesome blocks and seems to be much better at moving his feet and keeping the ball handler away from the paint. But I've also seen him give up a lot of layups. We'll just have to keep an eye on these numbers as the season progresses.

Mobley commits a lot of turnovers, more than Love. His points per shot attempt and assist rate are lower. Love is making 41% of his 3's while Evan has no 3-point shot - yet. Love is also a better free throw shooter and defensive rebounder. Mobley is better at offensive rebounds, steals, and blocks -things that require quickness, length, and jumping ability.

Love's shooting and passing skills are much better and surprisingly the Cavs are better defensively with Love on the floor than Mobley. My guess is that with 14 NBA seasons under his belt Love sees things much quicker than Evan and probably plays better team defense, but maybe not as well individually.

I noticed that Love was the only player on the Cavs who was stepping out and preventing the ball handler from coming around screens with clean looks at the basket. He "shows hard" and forces the ball back to the other defender or makes him retreat, giving his defender time to get around the screen. That's how I was taught to defend the screen when I played. Now I see other Cavs starting to show hard in certain situations.

I think as we get deeper into the season Mobley's numbers will improve. We'll see. Last night against Portland Jarrett Allen was a +19 while Wade and Osman were both +17. Okoro was +16. Mobley was +0.0.

Great post.

I think there is some noise here. Two of the Cavs’ three worst five-man lineups (LeVert-Mitchell-Okoro-Allen-Mobley and Garland-Mitchell-Stevens-Allen-Mobley) both pair a non-shooter next to Allen and Mobley and are -43.4 and -5.6 per 100 possessions with 26 and 63 minutes respectively.

That same lineup with Cedi instead of Stevens and Okoro is +40.8/100 possessions, but only played 11 minutes so far this season.

Mobley and Allen provide a huge mismatch because they both have excellent court vision and can defend guards. The problem is, when they’re paired with a non-shooter, teams are using zone defense to clog the middle of the court and take away Garland and Mitchell’s driving games.

Allen’s numbers individually are better than Mobley because, when not paired together, Allen is just a better center. That’s not a diss on Mobley, and I think that he’ll get to that level soon, but it’s just reality right now.

JB needs to consider starting Cedi or Wade, but keeping at least one of Stevens and Okoro in the rotation, imo.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Detroit, who came in 4-15, beat Utah on the road Weds. Somebody named Collin Sexton had 12 assists for the Jazz, but it wasn't enough. With starting point guard Mike Conley out, Sexton got the start next to another ex-Cav, Jordan Clarkson. They combined for 41 points and 14 assists but Clarkson was -12 and Sexton -11.

Kind of like when Sexton and Garland were starting for the Cavs.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Still a lot of parity in the East with eight teams between 8-11 and 10-7.

The Pacers are 10-7 and have won 7 of their last 9 but they've also played the league's easiest schedule.

 

[zDawg45]