2022 Cleveland Guardians Regular Season Thread

[Obscured By Clouds]

Who are the other 3? Straw? OGonz? He outperformed Gonzalez since 2021 in the minors, that's a robust 1.5y sample size.

I do feel a little better about this, as your assessments have proven right way more often than not, but still feel this will be a mistake...

Y. Diaz
J. Wendle
A. Santander
J. Aguilar
Urshela
Grossman
H. Ramirez
Plawecki
Arroyo

This lineup could hang with ours and I probably forgot a couple.... Joyce, Gamel?

You can apply this to every team. Not only that, but many of the players you list right here can be applied to other teams as well, Like Urshela, Plawecki and Arroyo off the top of my head.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Even if you think Call is "Luplow 2.0" (which he likely is not), you can find those veteran platoon corner OF's whenever you want. If our team is ready to compete for a World Series, and we're just missing a Luplow/Guyer type guy, they're basically free whether you want to sign one during free agency or trade for one.

If you want to do a "Hey, but what about these guys who left our system and got better?" then you better list everyone--not just the cherry-picked success stories.

Alex Call just isn't someone who makes a difference. You have:

1. Kwan
2. Straw
3. OGon
4. Nolan Jones
5. George Valera
6. Will Benson
7. Will Brennan

All vying for limited spots on our roster. Wish Call the best in his future endeavors and get on with it.

 

[Tondo]

Ernie Clement, also a guy who isn’t long for the 40 man.

All these “could have kept him over these guys” examples are guys who are gone anyways to protect Rule 5 guys in a month and a half, Call included. Just such a weird thing to complain about with Gonzalez back.

And Steven Kwan is no longer a platoon player moving forward. There’s your 3rd.

Wish we would have given Call a longer look. Instead, we had to endure Mercado re run 3.0, it was Chris Gimenez at 1B over Aguilar all over again.
Gonzalez and Benson were fringe prospects themselves not long ago. The main reason they get a look is age and pedigree.

 

[Tondo]

You can apply this to every team. Not only that, but many of the players you list right here can be applied to other teams as well, Like Urshela, Plawecki and Arroyo off the top of my head.

To an extent, yes, but I doubt every team has an actual solid lineup of guys out there who they let go for free or as trade throw ins in their mid'ish 20s.

Look, I wouldn't trade our FO for any other, but they're not perfect and they've gotten evidently better both on the hitter acquisition/draft and development side.
So yes, if Alex Call is my biggest gripe, it's a testament they're doing good.
You'll still hear about it if he turns into Luplow 2.0 though, lol

 

[petes999]

Also remember that our hitting development department has gone through a large overhaul. But, let's not over emphasize a few good years vs a lot of mediocre years on some of these guys

Y. Diaz - Okay total embarrassment of him over Bauer yet Jose and Santana had 1st and 3rd locked up ... they were looking for an OF vs infielder - gambled and lost
J. Wendle - He was traded for Brandon Moss - but then again we crucify them when they don't trade any prosects. He had a good Arz fall but wasn't a top 20 prospect per mlb.com in 2013 (middle of road prospect like Tena that hit, it happens).
A. Santander - He almost got through Rule 5 (only one of 2 players in 2nd round - none of who did that well but him -- sometimes luck of draw)
J. Aguilar - One good year with a 2.7 oWar but then nothing over 1.2 WAR ... we remember what we want
Urshela - Toronto didn't see it either. Some guys just need a specific coach that gets through to them (reason Tracy is now in AAA - hopefully we pay him well)
Grossman - would have been a great DH (not a good OF really - negative dWar) if we didn't sign EE a month or two later for DH role (got lost in shuffle). But again, 29 other teams had a chance to sign him to a ML contract that year but he slipped through to us on minor league (sometimes it is 2 or 3rd chance that a guy hits).
H. Ramirez - Would have been nice this year but again do we want him or Oscar G going forward? Think Oscar G is better but Cleveland held onto Mercado too long (I will give you that - vanity for trying to salvage a trade but a better fielder that we were looking for in 4th OF with Zimmer over Harold).
Plawecki - I can point out his lack of playing time for hitting .341 and .287 or that his 2021 and 2022 dWar is -0.2 (not Cleveland way)
Arroyo - 4th team now, 636 AB and a 1.5 WAR over 6 years (did we really miss the boat)?

So there are a few legit grips but sometimes you don't win it all like Archer who I thought was a throw in but is/was at one point better than anyone above that we lost in trade too. How about Susler and Nelson ... two other pitchers given up for nothing (Susler was a part of Bauers trade) that have done decently (like hitters above).

 

[Obscured By Clouds]

To an extent, yes, but I doubt every team has an actual solid lineup of guys out there who they let go for free or as trade throw ins in their mid'ish 20s.

Look, I wouldn't trade our FO for any other, but they're not perfect and they've gotten evidently better both on the hitter acquisition/draft and development side.
So yes, if Alex Call is my biggest gripe, it's a testament they're doing good.
You'll still hear about it if he turns into Luplow 2.0 though, lol

My point is no FO is perfect, and yes, you can make this same list with any team. At least three of the ones you named qualify with numerous teams.

It's not like we have cut bait with a Johan Santana. Most of the guys you listed had one or two good seasons and reverted back to league average at best. We have picked up plenty of players that have had one or two good seasons before reverting to form and moving on.

Call is going on 28, just got his first call up, and we have much more potential coming up in the OF, let alone the ones we recently called up. Think about that for a second. Just two years ago we were hanging our hats on platoons featuring 1 trick ponies like your mentioned Luplow. Now those types of outfielders are a waste of space on our 40 man.

If Call can be a Luplow for someone else, good for him, wish the guy the best, just not against us.

 

[petes999]

How about the GM who blew that trade for Josh Fields -- Yurdon Alvarez. Fields did give Dodgers a 2 WAR over 2.3 years but still ... how could they give up such a great hitter?

That is baseball .. a game of stats where you hopefully win more than you lose but sometimes you will lose big... Like Johan Santana as well.

 

[Derek]

Who are the other 3? Straw? OGonz? He outperformed Gonzalez since 2021 in the minors, that's a robust 1.5y sample size.

I do feel a little better about this, as your assessments have proven right way more often than not, but still feel this will be a mistake...

Y. Diaz
J. Wendle
A. Santander
J. Aguilar
Urshela
Grossman
H. Ramirez
Plawecki
Arroyo

This lineup could hang with ours and I probably forgot a couple.... Joyce, Gamel?

Yandy is the only guy on that list I’d even want on this team (and he wouldn’t even be an extension candidate). The rest are mediocre at best, and many were guys that bounced between multiple organizations being DFA’d.

Are we going to have this same talk if Mercado or Zimmer eventually has a couple serviceable years somewhere?

 

[Chris]

Coming up from Cbus and going to game Sunday. Fair or foul, wearing an Indians shirt? Not because I care, just haven’t bought Guardians shit yet.

 

[Benway]

Yandy is the only guy on that list I’d even want on this team (and he wouldn’t even be an extension candidate).

I'd still love to know the scuttlebutt about his feud with Tito.

 

[Criznit]

I'd still love to know the scuttlebutt about his feud with Tito.

... If I remember the rumor mill correctly, and definitely buzz me if this is wrong/horseshit... Is they wanted to get Yandy to play/move more into the OF and he wasn't having it.

 

[Benway]

... If I remember the rumor mill correctly, and definitely buzz me if this is wrong/horseshit... Is they wanted to get Yandy to play/move more into the OF and he wasn't having it.

It must have gotten pretty heated between them if, as rumored, Tito refused to speak with him at all.

 

[Stark]

Coming up from Cbus and going to game Sunday. Fair or foul, wearing an Indians shirt? Not because I care, just haven’t bought Guardians shit yet.

I'm going in late August to a game and I'm wearing my Indians Brantley jersey.

I'd say based on what I can see on broadcasts, it's probably about a 50/50 split in terms of people wearing Indians/Guardians stuff.

 

[Benway]

Coming up from Cbus and going to game Sunday. Fair or foul, wearing an Indians shirt? Not because I care, just haven’t bought Guardians shit yet.

Definitely cool, even Wahoo gear is common.

 

[B Mac]

I'm going in late August to a game and I'm wearing my Indians Brantley jersey.

I'd say based on what I can see on broadcasts, it's probably about a 50/50 split in terms of people wearing Indians/Guardians stuff.

It’s probably more 85%+ in Indians gear still. The broadcast typically only shows fans in G’s gear for obvious reasons, but in person it’s still heavily the older stuff.