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2022 Cleveland Guardians Regular Season Thread

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Fangraphs Defensive Rating is generous because it is a heavily flawed metric.

Oscar's route efficiency in the OF is worse than Franmil's has ever been, bottom 10th percentile amongst all qualified defenders.

Not only does he take poor routes, he gets poor jumps on the ball. 18th percentile in jump efficiency amongst all qualified defenders.

Couple those together and he makes less outs in RF than the average player should. His -4 outs above average figure right now would be Franmil's worst season since 2018.

Now please, someone go grave dig on how I said Oscar is Franmil-esque in the OF again like I was wrong.
So I take it you guys see Statcast as a better evaluator than the DRS / UZR metrics. FWIW I think Fangraphs rating now incorporates some of the Statcast stuff into it though it might just be some kind of average.
 
So we continue to want to trade Rosario. Glad you guys are not in the front office.
Good grief

Rcristal
I am only packaging Rosario and a prospect or two for a controllable front of the rotation pitcher. Not a clue who could that be.
If Rosario does not get moved I am fine with that as well. I like him
I just cannot see the Indians ponying up to give Bieber a huge contract that I think he will seek. And they are going to need another starting pitcher of somewhere close to Bieber's level if moves on in a year.

To be honest I would not blame the Indians for not signing on Bieber long term. He has had a very good season but his Speed has gone down and I dont get a sense of longevity with him
 
So I take it you guys see Statcast as a better evaluator than the DRS / UZR metrics. FWIW I think Fangraphs rating now incorporates some of the Statcast stuff into it though it might just be some kind of average.

I do. DRS and UZR and general stats based on mathematics or the human element to create them don’t take into account the positioning of players. If player A catches a ball UZR deems is located at a 50% chance to catch spot while playing straight up while player B catches that same ball while positioned 20 feet closer by their coaches they are both rated the same. But clearly one made a superior play to the other.

Jumps, route efficiency, reaction time. That stuff is universal across any position a player is put in.
 
Thanks makes sense. I didn't know where DRS/UZR came from, but that's comparatively weak for sure.

Although I guess for comparing team defense it might make sense to use DRS/UZR because positioning is part of it.
 
I am only packaging Rosario and a prospect or two for a controllable front of the rotation pitcher. Not a clue who could that be.
If Rosario does not get moved I am fine with that as well. I like him
I just cannot see the Indians ponying up to give Bieber a huge contract that I think he will seek. And they are going to need another starting pitcher of somewhere close to Bieber's level if moves on in a year.

To be honest I would not blame the Indians for not signing on Bieber long term. He has had a very good season but his Speed has gone down and I dont get a sense of longevity with him
They already have him. He's closer to identical than "somewhere close" to Bieber.
 
They already have him. He's closer to identical than "somewhere close" to Bieber.
Who, TMac? I get the point and all but I still think we need FOR help upon losing Biebs although if some of these prospects come through that need can be fulfilled internally. It's just so unpredictable who actually will though.
 
I do. DRS and UZR and general stats based on mathematics or the human element to create them don’t take into account the positioning of players. If player A catches a ball UZR deems is located at a 50% chance to catch spot while playing straight up while player B catches that same ball while positioned 20 feet closer by their coaches they are both rated the same. But clearly one made a superior play to the other.

Jumps, route efficiency, reaction time. That stuff is universal across any position a player is put in.

The question is there a good way to project defense, that really reflects how well someone plays?
 
They already have him. He's closer to identical than "somewhere close" to Bieber.
agreed on TMac Cal is ascending as well My point is if they trade bieber they are do need another quality starter to add to cal and tmac
 
Who, TMac? I get the point and all but I still think we need FOR help upon losing Biebs although if some of these prospects come through that need can be fulfilled internally. It's just so unpredictable who actually will though.
Yep! I understand why you would think that because it very well may be 100% correct. However, I have more confidence than most in the quality depth this organization has. I also think that if Bieber is dealt there will be another Espino/Williams/Bibee coming back, maybe 2.

You ain't bullshitting when you suggest that it's so unpredictable.
 
Starting to think the apathetic "Cleveland Sucks" fans aren't as bad as the smug ass "you don't get it" types..
 
I think the conversations of Bieber being traded are more "what ifs" and opinions than actually declaring he will be dealt with no uncertain terms. At least from my perspective anyway.
 
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