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2022 Off-season Thread - The Future is Bright

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Nice run. Caris & Isaiah Mobley looked good.
Isaiah looked unbelievably slow, with heavy legs. When you notice that even in a run where absolutely nobody is playing any defense, you got problems.

Guy's simply not an NBA player. Better to accept it now.
 
People talk a lot about
Isaiah looked unbelievably slow, with heavy legs. When you notice that even in a run where absolutely nobody is playing any defense, you got problems.

Guy's simply not an NBA player. Better to accept it now.

Seth Curry tho
 
Love's contract expires at the end of the season. So does LeBron's, assuming he doe not sign an extension with the Lakers this fall. So we'd be trading a half season of our backup power forward for a half season of LeBron, who averaged 30 points, 8 rebounds, and 6 assists last year.

Okoro is expendable because he's 2 and we have Sexton and LeVert. I assume one of them will be extended and one will be allowed to walk or be traded. We also just drafted Agbagi, another 2.

Okoro could be moved back to the 3, but he'd be backing up Markkanen, who is a core piece and is signed for three more years. Personally I think Stevens is as good as Okoro in that role anyway.

With either LeVert and Sexton, Agbagi, and Markkanen all on the team for 3-4 more years I don't see a role for Okoro.

The Lakers would want a draft pick and our next first rounder is in 2024, which we can't trade since we already traded our 2023 1st for LeVert. So we would send them our 2025 first round pick. By then we should be one of the best teams in the league even if LeBron has retired.

The Lakers are looking at a long term rebuild. Westbrook will be 34 and hasn't worked out for them. LeBron will be 38 and his years are numbered. He needs to get somewhere where he can win another Championship or two, unless he just doesn't care about that anymore. The Lakers should get rid of LeBron and Westbrook and build around AD, who is 29. They need to collect young players with upsides and draft picks. This proposed deal would get that started.
I value Okoro because he’s so young. We don’t know how he will develop down the road, but for now, I wouldn’t trade him. Hard to find good young defenders. As for LeBron, his age has certainly started to show. His Net Rating was the worst of his career last season as it dropped into the negative territory for the first time since his rookie year. The clock is ticking. He can still be effective on the offensive end, but would the Cavs win the championship with him? At 38 he would not be what Kawhi Leonard was for the Raptors in 2019 for example. For me the odds are not good enough to justify giving up any of our good young players for him. I could be wrong, but that’s how I see it. Anyway, the media is probably going to be all over this. I hope it won’t affect the Cavs’ players too much (rumors about what players might get traded for LeBron etc.).
 
I value Okoro because he’s so young. We don’t know how he will develop down the road, but for now, I wouldn’t trade him. Hard to find good young defenders. As for LeBron, his age has certainly started to show. His Net Rating was the worst of his career last season as it dropped into the negative territory for the first time since his rookie year. The clock is ticking. He can still be effective on the offensive end, but would the Cavs win the championship with him? At 38 he would not be what Kawhi Leonard was for the Raptors in 2019 for example. For me the odds are not good enough to justify giving up any of our good young players for him. I could be wrong, but that’s how I see it. Anyway, the media is probably going to be all over this. I hope it won’t affect the Cavs’ players too much (rumors about what players might get traded for LeBron etc.).
Good argument. You could be right.

However, according to Cleaningtheglass.com the Lakers were 3.1 points per 100 possessions better with LeBron on the court (4.1 points better offensively and 1.0 points worse defensively). I believe that putting him on the court with a younger team his impact would be even higher, especially if he were teamed with a point guard like Garland.

Okoro showed no improvement in his offensive game from his first to his second season. Also, in the final win-or-go-home game against Atlanta, when all five starters were finally available, LeVert started at the 2 while Okoro was on the bench. The acquisition of LeVert, the drafting of Agbaji and the return of Sexton makes Okoro less valuable than he was when drafted and we did not have LeVert, Agbaji, and Markkanen.

If we go into this season with LeVert, Sexton, Agjaji, and Markkanen on the team I don't know where Okoro's minutes will come from. And after Rubio returns we can use the lethal pairing of Garland and Rubio in the backcourt, which will push Okoro even further down the depth chart.

Okoro is still very young and from all reports is a hard worker. He has the chance to develop into a decent starter, IMO. It may take a couple more years because nobody is looking for a shooting guard who averages 8.8 points per 31 minutes (last year) or a small forward who is 6'5" and shoots 35% from deep.

I compare Okoro to the Sixers shooting guard Matisse Thybulle, an elite defender at shooting guard, who averaged 5.7 points in 25 minutes per game. Thybulle started 50 games for a 51-win team, so you can win with a non-scoring defensive standout if you have enough scoring at other positions (Embiid, Harden, Maxey, etc). I think the Cavs could win with a lineup of Garland, LeVert or Sexton, Okoro, Mobley, and Allen.

But there is no comparison between Okoro and LeBron. I could be wrong, but if the Cavs are in the hunt and have a chance to get LeBron next year for Okoro and Love and a future pick, I don't see how they pass that up.
 

Darius Garland and Evan Mobley are helping to organize a voluntary minicamp for the Cavaliers next week.​

Garland and Mobley stepping up as leaders this early in their careers is just awesome to see, and it's obvious why fantasy managers are so excited to target both in fantasy drafts this fall. International players such as Lauri Markkanen, Cedi Osman and Raul Neto may not attend due to their obligations overseas, but it's notable that restricted free agent Collin Sexton will not be there while he and the Cavs are at a standstill regarding his contract negotiations.
 
More on Okoro from Chris Fedor:

In more than 1,300 minutes together, the Garland-Okoro combination outscored opponents by 6.2 points per 100 possessions. The Cavs had an offensive rating of 114.8….all signs keep pointing to Caris LeVert as this year’s starting shooting guard.

There is a strong belief that LeVert’s skill set, when healthy, fits well alongside Garland in the backcourt -- and with the other members of the projected starting five.
 
Imo giving up on Okoro is a mistake. He is a plus defender with good instincts as a passer and cutter. Highest upside guy outside the big 3. He will be a beast. Learn some patience.

Trading for Bron to lose in the 2nd round is not that
 
Imo giving up on Okoro is a mistake. He is a plus defender with good instincts as a passer and cutter. Highest upside guy outside the big 3. He will be a beast. Learn some patience.

Trading for Bron to lose in the 2nd round is not that
I don’t think he’ll EVER be a beast! He’ll be a good rotational player.
Do you really think this squad plus LBJ would lose in the second round?????
 
I value Okoro because he’s so young. We don’t know how he will develop down the road, but for now, I wouldn’t trade him. Hard to find good young defenders. As for LeBron, his age has certainly started to show. His Net Rating was the worst of his career last season as it dropped into the negative territory for the first time since his rookie year. The clock is ticking. He can still be effective on the offensive end, but would the Cavs win the championship with him? At 38 he would not be what Kawhi Leonard was for the Raptors in 2019 for example. For me the odds are not good enough to justify giving up any of our good young players for him. I could be wrong, but that’s how I see it. Anyway, the media is probably going to be all over this. I hope it won’t affect the Cavs’ players too much (rumors about what players might get traded for LeBron etc.).

When Lebron is 65 years old he will still be better than Isaac Okoro on his best day. I mean, come on man!
 
Apparently Okoro has been working his butt off this summer so we will see shortly if there is a big improvement.
He worked his butt of last year and took 25% less shots.
The greatest stat I ever saw is the one that had no player within 9.3 feet of Okoro on his 3 point attempts. Think about that, 9.3 feet. It's difficult to imagine anywhere on the offensive side of the court that there could be a spot with no defender within almost 10 feet, yet even in that situation Okoro took 25% less shots than in his rookie season. The fact that the defense does not even try to account for Okoro just makes it that much more difficult on others. That's why he barely saw the court against Atlanta, with him in Trae Young just rested on D and helped double team Garland.
 
I don’t think he’ll EVER be a beast! He’ll be a good rotational player.
Do you really think this squad plus LBJ would lose in the second round?????
Okoro's 95th percentile is higher than Ochai or Sexton's. So yes, he can potentially turn into a really good player.

And its not just adding LBJ. We would have to give up some pieces (Love, Caris, Lauri, Okoro, etc)
 
Okoro's 95th percentile is higher than Ochai or Sexton's. So yes, he can potentially turn into a really good player.

And its not just adding LBJ. We would have to give up some pieces (Love, Caris, Lauri, Okoro, etc)
I see your point but I’m “assuming” the Cavs would not giving up THAT much….maybe Okoro and LaVert….other than that it’s a hard pass for me!
 
If the Lakers are in 11th place halfway through next season and LeBron is a free agent at the end of the year, would they rather have LeBron for the last 42 games of the season and finish in 11th place or have Okoro for the next 2.5 years (200 games)?

By trading LeBron they might finish 12th or 13th next year instead of 11th, but that would mean they have a better chance of getting a higher draft pick. Are they really going to say they won't take 200 games of Okoro for 40 games of LeBron and demand LeVert, and Lauri as well?

The Cavs would just offer Okoro and Love for LeBron and say take it or leave it. The Lakers would be fools not to take it. Like I said, they could just re-sign LeBron in the off-season if he wanted to play in L.A. next year.

Okoro will make $7.0 million this year, $8.9 million next year (club option), and $11.8 million the following year, which is the qualifying offer if they can't extend him. If Okoro is the third shooting guard behind either LeVert or Sexton and Agbaji, or if he is the backup small forward behind Markkanen, are the Cavs going to be willing to pay him that kind of money?

My guess is they don't make him the qualifying offer after next season and he becomes a free agent.

The Lakers would not be interested in LeVert because they already have Westbrook and they both play the same position. Also, LeVert will be a free agent after next season while Okoro would be under team control for two more seasons.
 
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