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2022 Season | Series #22 | Guardians @ Twins | June 21-23, 2022

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It's hard to blame a single guy for a loss (especially after he helped us win 2 days ago) but Franmil's trot to home plate is to blame.
 
Lord Mar said:
It's hard to blame a single guy for a loss (especially after he helped us win 2 days ago) but Franmil's trot to home plate is to blame.
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Kwan should have PR for him, that's inexcusable. Tito said Hedges and Naylor (for whatever reason) were off limits for him, so he already handcuffed himself, especially with Reyes out in LF.
But in that situation, with weak hitters coming up, it was vital who's standing on 3rd. You basically trade maybe an AB in the 9th (and Kwan for Reyes hardly a huge downgrade there) for a better chance to score in that situation plus much better LF defense for 3 innings. Both sides ended up costing us. Kwan would have scored easily in the Gio bobble and would have made the catch Reyes butchered into a double (Stephan worked around it, but cost him additional pitches)
 
CATS44 said:
What happened on Franmils dash to home was that he didn't do his job, a particularly simple exercise taught at every level of baseball from 7 yrs old up.

With the bases loaded and one out he had one job....run like hell on a ground ball. Nothing else matters. Nothing that happens behind him...nothing that Urshela does...nothing.

This is the first time that I've ever seen Tito look pissed. This wasn't some rookie. This was a veteran.

**********

If you study the FO and Tito over the last ten years, its not that hard to figure out their ways of thinking...if you take the time do so. Why did they do this? Why did they do that?

Heck, the reasoning for trading and acquiring in most situations could be painted on a billboard.

They weren't gonna trade Bauer until they got exactly what they were looking for...

1) MLB ready RH power bat with contact skills.
2) MLB ready LH SP.
3) Low level MIF prospect.

Same thing with Clevinger...

1) MLB ready power bat with contact skills.
2)MLB ready SP....didn't matter which hand, since they just acquired two lefties.
3) Upper and/or mid level MIF prospect.

My immediate knee jerk reaction...which I disgustingly posted...to the Lindor-Cookie trade was...nothing but a salary dump.

Until I investigated Gimenez and Amed, both young, both with some MLB experience, both fast...and both higher rated as MIF prospects than anybody we had at the time or today.

The FO leaves a trail bread crumbs. You just have to follow them.

The same with Tito.

Almost every close game we play is followed by a litany of complaints about his lineups, his use of pitchers, and his situational decisions...although he, too, has left a trail of bread crumbs.

Probably 90% of the in game decisions that Tito makes I agree with. The rest I make an effort to put myself in his shoes and get into his head. Most of the knee jerk reactions to what I did not agree with end up being wrong.

And yet, almost every year, the Indians/Guardians have among the best second half records...records driven in part by decisions made weeks and months earlier.

Our record in extra innings is 6-2. In one run games its now 12-9.

Somebody is making a lot of right decisions, and none of them are on this forum.

Anybody want to handicap the contest for AL MOY?
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Cats, it's at a point where you even don't realize how contradictory your own weak argument becomes.

The Tito manages for the long haul argument.

First, it's a weak argument because it's correlation presented as causation. There's no evidence it pays off long term. Not playing Hedges or Naylor for 3 innings will make up for that 0.5 WAR we lost yesterday? Good luck. In fact, last year we had a weaker 2nd half record with the same manager. Now what?

Second, it can easily be turned against you. Maybe our second half records have been better because Tito continually made boneheaded 1st half calls that cost us games (and bad 1st half records) and he was too stubborn to change, something he did later in the season leading to more wins. Now what?

The way you presented your argument leaves it open for both sides to be perfectly right about it.
 
1) According to the FO, they are high on every prospect...lol.

Watch their actions, not their words. In a 2022 season in which just about everybody got a tryout in Cleveland, which two didnt.

You figure that one out.

It also isn't which ones the FO are high on. Its which ones they are HIGHEST on.

2) It never has been whether Arias was a good prospect, it was where he ranked among our MIFs...and esp if he was better than Gimenez, which he is not, and highly unlikely to be. He is also highly unlikely to be better than Amed this season.

3) For some reason fans are not realizing what they are seeing with Gimenez, and not just this year....the whole body of work. I said that he was at least a 4 WAR player over an entire season...600 PAs. Most scoffed. Well, he's passed that already, and isn't to 600 PAs yet.

Do you know how many 2Bs we've had in the last 50 years that ever put up 4 WAR over there first 600 PAs? Zero.

Not Kipnis. Not Droobs. Not the great Robbie Alomar.

4) The general concensus was that Amed would be traded mid season. Only a few were in disagreement. Now a lot of folks have backed off to him being traded after the season, something very few disagreed with.

5) The general concensus, which some are now denying, was that this was not a season of contention for the division, and that winning a WC was not a worthwhile goal....and there are dozens of such postings spread throughout the various threads. In that scenario, many fans wanted to trade proven MLB assets for more untried prospects. It can't be denied, because fans are still doing it.

Within the last week...right in the middle of this highly successful road trip...there are still fans advocating for trading two members of our rotation, our starting SS, and our DH.

Everybody not named Jose is a trade chip at one time or another to fans. That doesn't mean that they are to the FO today, and today is what we should be talking about.

6) Pay attention. This FO does not trade inexpensive MLB SPs with years of control remaining, and when they do trade a rotational piece, they get MLB pitching in return. Every time.

Plesac and Civale aren't going anywhere this season, unless the return includes an immediate upgrade to the rotation....somebody like Montas.

7) Some folks are finally realizing that we have a real 40 man problem. Just check the regular season thread. Some are finally willing to consider trading multiple prospects for a major upgrade. We got very lucky this past season when R5 was canceled. Unless we make a major 4 for one trade, we won't be that lucky in December.

8) We now have multiple core pieces in place, and a few other youngsters making a statement. Look at those non positions of need when looking at which 40 man eligible prospects the FO will be most willing to trade.

Hint: We have a MIF. We have a LF. We have a 1B. They all bat LH.
 
rmacd said:
Why not Palacios as a pinch runner. Natural Naylor or Kwan to PH.
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It was only the 7th inning and Palacios has been outstanding as a pinch hitter. He might have been needed in the 9th or in extra innings to pinch hit, even with Naylor and Kwan available.

That ground ball by Maile should have been an easy double play to end the inning. Franmil thought Urshela would go to second with the throw. But after Urshela dropped the ball he realized he couldn't get two and took the out at home. I can't be too hard on Franmil.

We needed Clement or Maile to get the ball in the air or drive it through the infield. Clement got two strikes on him and then chased a breaking ball off the plate and grounded into a force at home.
 
CATS44 said:
People are allowed to opine on what they THINK are mistakes, but they never take the time to put themselves in the managers shoes and try to figure out what they were thinking.

It made sense last night to pitch Castro. It made sense to not pinch hit last inning.

And if Franmil had run all out on contact as he was supposed to, we would have a tie game and one out.

Straws fly ball would have given us the lead.
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Strongly disagree. After Reyes double, he was the go ahead run on second base. A pinch runner was called for. And 100%, left handed pinch hitters were needed with the bases loaded. You actually think Clement and Maille are a better matchup agianst side winding Jioe Smith...or... Kwan/ Naylor/Palacios against a lefty who has a plus 6.00 ERA? Complete brain fart by Tito all the way around.

As another poster pointed out, one can view Francona as an excellent manager and still criticize him when he screws up. And he screwed up royally.
 
Wham with the Right Hand said:
It was only the 7th inning and Palacios has been outstanding as a pinch hitter. He might have been needed in the 9th or in extra innings to pinch hit, even with Naylor and Kwan available.

That ground ball by Maile should have been an easy double play to end the inning. Franmil thought Urshela would go to second with the throw. But after Urshela dropped the ball he realized he couldn't get two and took the out at home. I can't be too hard on Franmil.

We needed Clement or Maile to get the ball in the air or drive it through the infield. Clement got two strikes on him and then chased a breaking ball off the plate and grounded into a force at home.
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The bases were loaded with no one out in a 1-0 game. You want to save your hard hitting pinch hitters for later?
 
Wham with the Right Hand said:
It was only the 7th inning and Palacios has been outstanding as a pinch hitter. He might have been needed in the 9th or in extra innings to pinch hit, even with Naylor and Kwan available.

That ground ball by Maile should have been an easy double play to end the inning. Franmil thought Urshela would go to second with the throw. But after Urshela dropped the ball he realized he couldn't get two and took the out at home. I can't be too hard on Franmil.

We needed Clement or Maile to get the ball in the air or drive it through the infield. Clement got two strikes on him and then chased a breaking ball off the plate and grounded into a force at home.
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You need 1 run to tie in the 7th inning and have bases loaded no outs with Reyes on 3rd. That seems to me a no brainer for a pinch runner. Manager wants to keep his regulars off the field in a day game so Palacios. ... In a tie game maybe consider Palacios for later but not down by 1 in 7th.
 
1-2-3.. go the Red Sox.. nice start to the game by Quantrill....
 
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