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2023 College Football Season/Playoff (off the field)

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Your team cheated and then instantaneously became one of the least penalized teams in the entire sport. This is a fact. You can keep talking about backups and personal fouls as a means of justification and call it “analysis” but nobody cares. You cheated and committed significantly less penalties because of it, period.

Look at the trend line above. This is pathetic shit posting at this point. Just take the L and move along.
 
Look at the trend line above. This is pathetic shit posting at this point. Just take the L and move along.
Michigan played how many games in the covid year? 6? And you’re somehow using that as the crux of your argument? Woof.

This is almost as embarrassing as your university submitting a formal document citing PPG differentials based on a 2 game sample size against cupcakes.
 
Michigan played how many games in the covid year? 6? And you’re somehow using that as the crux of your argument? Woof.

This is almost as embarrassing as your university submitting a formal document citing PPG differentials based on a 2 game sample size against cupcakes.

It’s pretty clear you don’t understand anything about statistics. You have made two separate statements that were easily disproven in a matter of minutes.

And now you are trying to veer off in to more statistical arguments, which I’m sure will make you look equally uninformed.

This whole argument is embarrassing at this point. Just move on.
 
It’s pretty clear you don’t understand anything about statistics. You have made two separate statements that were easily disproven in a matter of minutes.

And now you are trying to veer off in to more statistical arguments, which I’m sure will make you look equally uninformed.

This whole argument is embarrassing at this point. Just move on.
“Disproven” in the eyes of a cultist, maybe.

Still waiting on those latest PPG differential numbers, surely you have them locked & loaded :chuckle:
 
“Disproven” in the eyes of a cultist, maybe.

Still waiting on those latest PPG differential numbers, surely you have them locked & loaded :chuckle:

You made two separate statements on what you thought some numbers meant and it took about 10 minutes to find the data and 5 to explain it.

As someone who spent a long time working in data, including in sports, it’s hard to describe how poor a hypothesis is if it can almost instantly be refuted by data that is so publicly available, that you could have yourself spent 10 minutes, to see how many holes would already be poked in these ideas.

Herein lies the problem of having an actual debate around statistics. You have to have factual data that backs up your claim. Like…..

“Your team cheated and then instantaneously became one of the least penalized teams in the entire sport.”

You made this claim and it took all of 2 minutes to show they have incrementally improved year over year for 5 years straight.

Just stick to the more theoretical things that can’t be disproven as easily and you’ll be fine. Random speculation is like wrestling a chihuahua. Statistical speculation is like wrestling an alligator. You never know when your head is going to be bit off.
 
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Having an honest discussion here…..What do you make of the regents very public position on all this stuff?

They're idiots.

There is no valid justification for why it is necessary for any of the people outside the AD to take a position on this at all. "We're concerned about the allegations and are interested in reading the NCAA investigation when it is complete" is all they should be saying. Because as of right now, those public statements have pulled Michigan's non-football reputation and credibility into a purely football-related issue. That's inexcusable.

The fact that there are now two coaches gone over this means that regardless of whatever rumors and allegations are floating around in the media, there is enough substance to this to know that the football program is not "innocent". It doesn't serve the interests of the university for it's non-football related programs to get dragged into something where we know there is some degree of guilt.
 
You made two separate statements on what you thought some numbers meant and it took about 10 minutes to find the data and 5 to explain it.

As someone who spent a long time working in data, including in sports, it’s hard to describe how poor a hypothesis is if it can almost instantly be refuted by data that is so publicly available, that you could have yourself spent 10 minutes to see how many holes would already be poked in these ideas.

Herein lies the problem of having an actual debate around statistics. You have to have factual data that backs up your claim. Like…..

“Your team cheated and then instantaneously became one of the least penalized teams in the entire sport.”

You made this claim and it took all of 2 minutes to show they have incrementally improved year over year for 5 years straight.

Just stick to the more theoretical things that can’t be disproven as easily and you’ll be fine. Random speculation is like wrestling a chihuahua. Statistical speculation is like wrestling an alligator. You never know when your head is going to be bit off.
So you coincidentally saw marginal improvements before the cheating started, and then you saw drastic improvements after the cheating started?

Got it.
 
So you coincidentally saw marginal improvements before the cheating started, and then you saw drastic improvements after the cheating started?

Got it.

Numbers don’t seem to be your strong suit so I’ll try to help you understand in a different way.

Why do you think the service academies perform so well in penalty per game measures?

Based on previous replies, I would avoid stats……just why do you personally think that is the case?

And why do they perform so far above the typical baseline of the average data set?
 
Numbers don’t seem to be your strong suit so I’ll try to help you understand in a different way.

Why do you think the service academies perform so well in penalty per game measures?

Based on previous replies, I would avoid stats……just why do you personally think that is the case?

And why do they perform so far above the typical baseline of the average data set?
Off the top of my head, I would guess it’s because they have much less plays per game based on their playstyle (running 100% of the time).

But I’m happy to drop this, it has more than run its course. Anyone is free to draw whatever conclusions they want from the facts.
 
Off the top of my head, I would guess it’s because they have much less plays per game based on their playstyle (running 100% of the time).

But I’m happy to drop this, it has more than run its course. Anyone is free to draw whatever conclusions they want from the facts.

Ok, pin that thought.

Now tell me what stands out on this list? What looks very different from everything else? Is there a potential outlier?

83 penalties - 743 yards
72 penalties - 685 yards
65 penalties - 581 yards
81 penalties - 717 yards
85 penalties - 715 yards
74 penalties - 625 yards
75 penalties - 630 yards
78 penalties - 648 yards
85 penalties - 707 yards
81 penalties - 662 yards
 
For me, if Michigan wants to be the mini-Ivy league of the midwest (along with Northwestern), then all that Santa Ono and the Regents should be saying is that not only are we co-operating but we are holding our staff and players to the highest level of honesty and accountability as we hold our students.

Yet, to have an investigation going on now for almost a month is ridiculous. There is co-operating with the FBI and NCAA and Big10 and simply bringing in all your players and coaches and videotaping the interviews to pass along to NCAA. Compliance department is so big, they can spare a few people to knock this out in a week. Simply to players, if you violate the student code of conduct on honesty and integrity, you are out of the University at end of semester and not playing immediately. To coaches, if you come clean, we will defend your reputation to stay here or get another job when this is all wrapped up. If you lie, there will be immediate termination and no severance of any kind which will tell the world your involvement in this incident.

But, to have the FBI still in looking into things with the computer when you fired the guy in January and to still not have a complete handle on this sign-stealing .... implies (does not prove) that there is stonewalling. And before you say there is limited things that they can do ... it is self-reporting in NCAA terms. There are ways to get ahead of these things (including having your own computer forensic department (with all your PhDs) investigate at least copies of your internal back-ups, networks and computer hard-drives to speed this along -- as nothing is more damaging than this drip-drip-drip, hoping the faucet leak will eventually fix itself. If CS used university printers and computers to create these things, you will have network data as things pass through somewhere.

And, the simple question to OC/DC/Hairball is why was someone so important still making $55,000 but you treated him as a clairvoyant (or at least a data science expert who should get paid $100,000+ for that code breaking knowledge) and listened to him as he screamed up and down the sidelines?

But, this whole back and forth when you want people's opinion is defensive (and time wasting). Part of investigations is to look at oddities and look at them more. In my old job, I based my final review of a work product as not trying to prove that my subordinates did everything right to check a box but rather try to punch holes in the work from all angles. That is how investigations work -- not trying to find why something maybe okay (simple solution) but look at things that seem weird and keep on pulling strings. 9 of the thing may lead nowhere but the 10th maybe the thing that blows the whole work product up. This is where Jim failed (hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil). He wasn't curious how someone broke the code that 110 universities have tried legally before and couldn't touch what this guy did and that is where most of Michigan is at right now .... we did nothing wrong and you can't prove it!!!
 
Yet, to have an investigation going on now for almost a month is ridiculous. There is co-operating with the FBI and NCAA and Big10 and simply bringing in all your players and coaches and videotaping the interviews to pass along to NCAA. Compliance department is so big, they can spare a few people to knock this out in a week.

Stuff like this is one of the largest problems in all of this. No one understands the rules but wants to cast judgements based on that misunderstanding. Michigan isn't allowed to do this. It is why no one wants the NCAA in their ass. You cannot run parallel investigating when an NCAA investigation starts. You are merely a passenger in the car at that point. Doesn't matter how big any compliance department is. Doesn't matter how willing anyone is to spare a few people.

The NCAA tells Michigan "we want X, Y, Z"........Michigan gives them X, Y, Z. The NCAA tells them "we want to interview X, Y, Z".......Michigan schedules interviews with X, Y, Z. The NCAA says "we found this".....Michigan is then tasked with acting on said info. If Michigan does anything other than that, they can incur more penalties.

To coaches, if you come clean, we will defend your reputation to stay here or get another job when this is all wrapped up. If you lie, there will be immediate termination and no severance of any kind which will tell the world your involvement in this incident.

They literally just did this?
 
They literally just did this?
You mean the sacrificial lamb .... don't tell me no one else lied (we had no idea who this guy is .....). And Hairball "misleading" investigators for COVID still is around
Michigan isn't allowed to do this.

I am not the expert here but my POINT is get to the end as quickly as possible and they were celebrating last week as the plea deal included per them Big10 will no investigate and wait for NCAA (why not invite as many to look at you if you were clean!!!)

But, even if a university is not allowed to do 1-on-1 interviews, I would assume they could at least say they want a written statement sent to them and NCAA and what people did or did not do to speed things up. And, the Weiss issue is not under NCAA control (supposedly) so they could look at copies of back-up data and their own computer network logs.

And, didn't OSU in turning over items (like emails) help point out what Tressel was hiding? Didn't they help NCAA w Young (again who was punished immediately before NCAA finished wrapping it all up).

Again ... you ask for opinions ... I am tired of this WE ARE MICHIGAN and You CANNOT prove we cheated. Like not getting to the conclusion of the COVID violations ... fighting it all the way (self-impose to hopefully undercut NCAA harsher punishment).

But, anyways, don't ask for our opinion if you just want to beat everyone down ... it's make this insufferable... Out!!!
 
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But, anyways, don't ask for our opinion if you just want to beat everyone down ... it's make this insufferable... Out!!!

I’m not beating anyone down. I’m pointing out, in an NCAA investigation, that they can’t even do the things you think they should be doing.
 
I’m not beating anyone down. I’m pointing out, in an NCAA investigation, that they can’t even do the things you think they should be doing.
It would be nice for ONCE to actually prove your statements with facts or references.... Again, OSU has identified stuff to NCAA during our investigations but you say Michigan cannot????

Yes, interviews usually take time as universities and as NCAA usually do them together. But is it a requirement that university doesn't do it on their own??? Prove it please. Especially if done by a lawyer and on video to help speed things up (document Univ wasn't doing it to prep for NCAA interview on what not to say). NCAA can always come back and do it again for their own questions, as is their right. The only thing that NCAA says in their websites is that it is usually done together (thus "but not always").

And, NCAA also says .... "Generally, the enforcement staff works collaboratively with institutions to conduct investigations." That means in my understanding that the university also plays a role -- not as you infer that NCAA does it on their own (the self-reporting ... highlighting things when turning data over like OSU did with e-mails...). Michigan would be helped if they found things (self-reported new stuff) than play possum.

 

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