2023 Guardians Spring Training Thread

[Cleveland is the Reason]

So far we have gotten 4.5 WAR production with a Gold Glove award for -0.7 WAR, a 4.15 ERA, and a .471 OPS production player.

Who exactly got it “stuck in clean to the sack”?

 

[KluberSociety]

So far we have gotten 4.5 WAR production with a Gold Glove award for -0.7 WAR, a 4.15 ERA, and a .471 OPS production player.

Who exactly got it “stuck in clean to the sack”?

Time will tell with Diaz. Since Straw already has a decent head start it's probably wise to bet under but it's really tough to say either way. Diaz has some pretty high upside.

Astros are certainly not looking stupid though, flashback: https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/astros-view-yainer-diaz-as-more-than-a-throw-in/

Since then he's shown a TON of power and made it up the system way sooner than expected.

 

[Cleveland is the Reason]

Time will tell with Diaz. Since Straw already has a decent head start it's probably wise to bet under but it's really tough to say either way. Diaz has some pretty high upside.

Astros are certainly not looking stupid though, flashback: https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/astros-view-yainer-diaz-as-more-than-a-throw-in/

Since then he's shown a TON of power and made it up the system way sooner than expected.

That’s fair, he doesn’t have many ABs.

But what ABs he does have were not very good and he’s not exactly lighting the world on fire this spring either.

Seems like if this was a Guardian prospect like Jones or Arias he’d already be losing his luster a bit.

 

[KluberSociety]

That’s fair, he doesn’t have many ABs.

But what ABs he does have were not very good and he’s not exactly lighting the world on fire this spring either.

Seems like if this was a Guardian prospect like Jones or Arias he’d already be losing his luster a bit.

I think he'd better be compared to someone like B Naylor whose luster seems to be in flux but has only recently made it into AAA with a cup of coffee at the MLB level. Diaz seems more MLB ready though if you look at his (or maybe better said, Naylor's) results in MLB / spring training.

Jones and Arias spent a ton of time in AAA without the success of Diaz.

 

[CATS44]

Doesn't matter.

Straw filled an immediate and long term need as a plus plus defender in center field...something Cleveland hasn't had since Lofton. Grady was good, but nowhere near Straw defensively. Before Straw, center field defense was a minus minus.

Fans like to talk about black holes in a lineup. Before Straw, centerfield was a black hole where fly balls became doubles.

What Diaz does or doesn't become doesn't change that.

The trade was typical in that it was one team trading for immediate upgrade and the other acquiring a possible...not probable...future piece. And both teams traded out of depth. Houston had young CFs. Cleveland had young catchers.

Unless you are discounting Naylor, and feel that Diaz is better as a catcher, its a matter of trading luxury prospect depth for need. There are some real questions about Diaz sticking as a fulltime catcher, illustrated by the fact that he played less than half his games behind the plate last season.

 

[CDAV45]

It appears that Gallagher will be on the ML roster so dealing a C like Diaz doesn't look good. Pair that with a CFer that hit 316/367/471/838 in Columbus prior to getting the call to Cleveland where he hit 357/400/500/900 in that small sample(42 AB) and it's even worse. Now in ST he's hitting 296/333/556/889. The difference in defense between Straw and him is minute compared to the offensive difference. Besides, anyone that knows anything understands how poor and inconsistent defensive metrics are so I don't want to here some BS about defensive WAR. Straw is a 4th OFer/defensive replacement. That's as true and clear as it gets. If Chernoff were to call the Astros and offer Straw back for Diaz he'd get laughed at, and the Astro's CF is open for competition.

And yes, it doesn't matter. What's done is done and we're stuck.

Edited to say that the problem prior to Straw is that they didn't have a true CFer. We were trying to play the likes of Naquin out there.

 

[Criznit]

Straw certainly filled a dire need for the Guardians and will keep getting to play...

Did the Astro's stumble after trading him? Nope. Do they miss him? Who?

Will Straw play well enough to keep his job in Cleveland? We'll see.

 

[CDAV45]

I think he'd better be compared to someone like B Naylor whose luster seems to be in flux but has only recently made it into AAA with a cup of coffee at the MLB level. Diaz seems more MLB ready though if you look at his (or maybe better said, Naylor's) results in MLB / spring training.

Jones and Arias spent a ton of time in AAA without the success of Diaz.

Diaz would be an excellent partner for Naylor when he is ready and a better partner for Zunino than Gallagher IMO.

Arias spent 1 healthy season in Columbus as a 21 yr old and hit 284/348/454/802. It was a grand total of 436 AB. In 2022 he was working his way back from the hamate injury so I don't put any stock into that. He skipped AA altogether and as a 19 yr old in A+ hit 302/339/470/809. I just don't get how folks are so willing to write him off when everything suggests he's a damn good prospect and looks like he'll be a damn good ML player to whatever degree. Lindor didn't even have Arias' power potential as a prospect. His power developed as he made physical gains in Cleveland.

 

[sportscoach]

Diaz would be an excellent partner for Naylor when he is ready and a better partner for Zunino than Gallagher IMO.

Arias spent 1 healthy season in Columbus as a 21 yr old and hit 284/348/454/802. It was a grand total of 436 AB. In 2022 he was working his way back from the hamate injury so I don't put any stock into that. He skipped AA altogether and as a 19 yr old in A+ hit 302/339/470/809. I just don't get how folks are so willing to write him off when everything suggests he's a damn good prospect and looks like he'll be a damn good ML player to whatever degree. Lindor didn't even have Arias' power potential as a prospect. His power developed as he made physical gains in Cleveland.

Diaz isn't a good fielding C though...

 

[CATS44]

Diaz isn't a good fielding C though...

Given his defensive profile, he wouldn't be an option in Cleveland behind the plate.

 

[CDAV45]

Diaz isn't a good fielding C though...

....and Gallagher can't hit so how bad is Diaz? Is he worse than Zunino who isn't a gem defensively? Naylor is good defensively so......

 

[sportscoach]

....and Gallagher can't hit so how bad is Diaz? Is he worse than Zunino who isn't a gem defensively? Naylor is good defensively so......

Diaz isn't going to stay at C... He's not a strong enough defensive profile to play C in Cleveland... It doesn't matter how well a player hits, if they don't have a certain defensive profile, Cleveland will never put them at C. Diaz doesn't have that profile hence why he was traded for Straw...

 

[CDAV45]

Diaz isn't going to stay at C... He's not a strong enough defensive profile to play C in Cleveland... It doesn't matter how well a player hits, if they don't have a certain defensive profile, Cleveland will never put them at C. Diaz doesn't have that profile hence why he was traded for Straw...

Yeah because the WS champions wouldn't do that either. The point is that Gallagher and Straw are essentially the same type of player. Both are good defensively with Straw having a career OPS+ of 79 and Gallagher a career OPS+ of 77. Oddly enough one is labeled a backup while the other is a starter. Maybe we should have just saved the money spent on Zunino and named Gallagher the starting C. After all, he's the goods defensively and that's enough to win right? Being a defensive gem is all that's needed to assemble a postseason juggernaut right?

"Diaz features plus arm strength to keep the running game in check. He caught just 148 games through his age-22 season, so his inexperience sometimes shows with his receiving and blocking, but he's on course to become an average defender behind the plate. He moves like a typical catcher, leaving first base as his only alternative."

"Diaz has made quick work of upper-minors pitching in 2022, compiling a .306/.356/.542 slash line with 25 home runs across 486 plate appearances in Double-A and Triple-A combined, all while striking out just 16.2 percent of the time. Defensively, Diaz has a competent glove to go with his plus arm, according to Longenhagen."

"Martin Maldonado is penciled in as the starting backstop in Houston, but the depth chart is unresolved from there. Diaz seems big-league ready with the bat -- he maintained a 121 wRC+ across 219 plate appearances with Triple-A Sugar Land in 2022 -- but his defense is more questionable. Upon reporting to camp, Diaz noted that he focused on improving all facets of his defense this offseason in an effort to stick in the majors. He is competing with fellow prospect Korey Lee for the role, though Diaz's bat-first profile may help him given that Maldonado is a strong defensive catcher but offers little at the plate."

"It could come down to Lee or Diaz for the final spot on Houston's 26-man roster, and despite Lee's defensive acumen, it could be Diaz who gets the first nod."

Bottom line, Diaz's development at C is far from finished and he isn't as terrible as you would like us to believe. Doesn't matter, just pointing it out.

 

[sportscoach]

Yeah because the WS champions wouldn't do that either. The point is that Gallagher and Straw are essentially the same type of player. Both are good defensively with Straw having a career OPS+ of 79 and Gallagher a career OPS+ of 77. Oddly enough one is labeled a backup while the other is a starter. Maybe we should have just saved the money spent on Zunino and named Gallagher the starting C. After all, he's the goods defensively and that's enough to win right? Being a defensive gem is all that's needed to assemble a postseason juggernaut right?

"Diaz features plus arm strength to keep the running game in check. He caught just 148 games through his age-22 season, so his inexperience sometimes shows with his receiving and blocking, but he's on course to become an average defender behind the plate. He moves like a typical catcher, leaving first base as his only alternative."

"Diaz has made quick work of upper-minors pitching in 2022, compiling a .306/.356/.542 slash line with 25 home runs across 486 plate appearances in Double-A and Triple-A combined, all while striking out just 16.2 percent of the time. Defensively, Diaz has a competent glove to go with his plus arm, according to Longenhagen."

"Martin Maldonado is penciled in as the starting backstop in Houston, but the depth chart is unresolved from there. Diaz seems big-league ready with the bat -- he maintained a 121 wRC+ across 219 plate appearances with Triple-A Sugar Land in 2022 -- but his defense is more questionable. Upon reporting to camp, Diaz noted that he focused on improving all facets of his defense this offseason in an effort to stick in the majors. He is competing with fellow prospect Korey Lee for the role, though Diaz's bat-first profile may help him given that Maldonado is a strong defensive catcher but offers little at the plate."

"It could come down to Lee or Diaz for the final spot on Houston's 26-man roster, and despite Lee's defensive acumen, it could be Diaz who gets the first nod."

Bottom line, Diaz's development at C is far from finished and he isn't as terrible as you would like us to believe. Doesn't matter, just pointing it out.

Diaz still wouldn't even get the backup spot in Cleveland since he's just not good enough defensively... Cleveland has a certain profile and they decided Diaz didn't fit that, plus they felt getting Straw and putting him in CF was more important than having a hit first catcher...

It's a very low probability he will be anything outside of a backup C/plays C but his main position is elsewhere...

 

[CDAV45]

Diaz still wouldn't even get the backup spot in Cleveland since he's just not good enough defensively... Cleveland has a certain profile and they decided Diaz didn't fit that, plus they felt getting Straw and putting him in CF was more important than having a hit first catcher...

It's a very low probability he will be anything outside of a backup C/plays C but his main position is elsewhere...

Says you. I gave you plenty of info stating otherwise, but you just offer your uneducated opinion. That's fine because we all have one, but until you present me with evidence that Diaz is incapable of playing a passable defense then I'll take your opinion for what it's worth.

If the current WS champs are willing to give him time behind the plate then I'm inclined to disagree with you.

Well the "guts" of this conversation is around that "certain profile" and if it is effective. I don't think it is. I don't like limited profile players of either side. I don't want a bunch of hitters that can't play an acceptable amount of defense and I don't want defense only players at any position. Settling for that isn't what I would do.

What's really sad is that there isn't much to talk about with the Guardians so we keep discussing this silly shit. I'm sure others are tired of it so I'm going to leave the last word to you and bow out.