2023 Guardians Spring Training Thread

[KluberSociety]

I'm with @CDAV45 in the "screw the profile" sorta sense. If someone gets it done as a complete player then that's what matters. And Gallagher's main good thing defensively is his "pitch framing" which really is just how well you can fool umps into calling bad pitches strikes. It's a skill that might only matter for one year at most. Then catching is mainly about throwing runners out. Even this year catching is perhaps mainly going to be about throwing runners out given the new changes. And guys like Gallagher and Zunino whose main defensive value was framing, are going to be below average even from the defensive side. Now I get it, we are probably planning on only having them for one year but if we're going to be risking losing someone like Viloria just to make room for sporadic appearances by Gallagher across one season that doesn't make sense.

Not to mention Gallagher just looks bad with the bat in a way that makes me think he is over the hill. in 2022 he struck out 26% of the time in AAA and 28% of the time in MLB. This is a guy who otherwise had a career 19% K rate in MLB and never had above a 15% K rate in AAA. Now he comes in spring training showing he is having trouble hitting the baseball. Free Viloria please, I don't need Sandy Leon Jr.

So I don't really know how Diaz is at stopping the running game but supposedly he has a great arm with a bad pop time. Seems like something that could at least be worked with if his bat is good enough.

"Screw the profile" is also though why I am fine with Straw. He clearly has got it done in an unorthodox way but he was also getting back on track toward the ends of the season and at least deserves a chance to show that he can be more similar to the 2021 version.

 

[CDAV45]

I'm with @CDAV45 in the "screw the profile" sorta sense. If someone gets it done as a complete player then that's what matters. And Gallagher's main good thing defensively is his "pitch framing" which really is just how well you can fool umps into calling bad pitches strikes. It's a skill that might only matter for one year at most. Then catching is mainly about throwing runners out. Even this year catching is perhaps mainly going to be about throwing runners out given the new changes. And guys like Gallagher and Zunino whose main defensive value was framing, are going to be below average even from the defensive side.

Not to mention Gallagher just looks bad with the bat in a way that makes me think he is over the hill. in 2022 he struck out 26% of the time in AAA and 28% of the time in MLB. This is a guy who otherwise had a career 19% K rate in MLB and never had above a 15% K rate in AAA. Now he comes in spring training showing he is having trouble hitting the baseball. Free Viloria please, I don't need Sandy Leon Jr.

So I don't really know how Diaz is at stopping the running game but supposedly he has a great arm with a bad pop time. Seems like something that could at least be worked with if his bat is good enough.

"Screw the profile" is also though why I am fine with Straw. He clearly has got it done in an unorthodox way but he was also getting back on track toward the ends of the season and at least deserves a chance to show that he can be more similar to the 2021 version.

This^ and Diaz's development is far from over. Since we have Sandy wouldn't that be a good environment for him to improve his pop time?

 

[macbdog]

Says you. I gave you plenty of info stating otherwise, but you just offer your uneducated opinion. That's fine because we all have one, but until you present me with evidence that Diaz is incapable of playing a passable defense then I'll take your opinion for what it's worth.

If the current WS champs are willing to give him time behind the plate then I'm inclined to disagree with you.

Well the "guts" of this conversation is around that "certain profile" and if it is effective. I don't think it is. I don't like limited profile players of either side. I don't want a bunch of hitters that can't play an acceptable amount of defense and I don't want defense only players at any position. Settling for that isn't what I would do.

What's really sad is that there isn't much to talk about with the Guardians so we keep discussing this silly shit. I'm sure others are tired of it so I'm going to leave the last word to you and bow out.

Diaz caught 50 games last year and spent 50 games at 1B/DH. So the Astros I think only see him as a part timer there. But even part time, he holds more value since his bat is usable off the bench, and the club could always move him to 1b for a defensive replacement and still have 2 Cs available. Long term, if he works out, he probably takes over for when one of the Cubans leaves or gets too old.

I mean, it isn't the end of the world with losing Yainer; it's more about getting the worst offensive regular in 30s years in return. The suffering is two fold. I think the guy they gave away to the Rays could be a far bigger loss.

 

[Gson]

Profile, schmofile...

Korey Lee has the defensive tools and the ability to be a ML catcher. He's got an arm that is going to be a hidden gem in the "stolen base" era that is upon us... His blocking and game calling ability coupled with that hose makes a profile the Guardians covet..

Maybe the Guardians can trade Straw back to Houston for the loser of the Lee/Diaz Contest??? (just kidding) Maybe a different trade can be considered.. What the Guardians have at catcher right now, imho.. is well documented.. Something needs to be done..

Lee's offense in 2022 was a problem.. He tried (or was said to have tried doing) to hit 5 run homers over 500 feet and all his numbers regressed.... Lee has the natural power and a strong right handed swing to be a double digit homer guy at any level.. but he shouldn't sell out for the power.. He's not getting any younger.. and..

imho...Houston should let Yainer swing for the fences with his power profile.. while being the offensive relief catcher for the Stros throughout the 2023 season.. Lee may be able to be obtained for someone like Cantillo or Curry.. or not..

 

[CDAV45]

Diaz caught 50 games last year and spent 50 games at 1B/DH. So the Astros I think only see him as a part timer there. But even part time, he holds more value since his bat is usable off the bench, and the club could always move him to 1b for a defensive replacement and still have 2 Cs available. Long term, if he works out, he probably takes over for when one of the Cubans leaves or gets too old.

I mean, it isn't the end of the world with losing Yainer; it's more about getting the worst offensive regular in 30s years in return. The suffering is two fold. I think the guy they gave away to the Rays could be a far bigger loss.

Was that due to his inability to effectively catch or because of his good offensive profile that can play at any position? I don't know the answer to that, but I do know that Diaz has to improve his pop time. Should he do that to go along with his cannon for an arm then they might have something with him.

I wouldn't give you a warm bucket of piss for any framing stats. There are so many factors that creating an accurate calculation is about impossible.

 

[KluberSociety]

Cam Gallagher - 7 K's in 16 AB's now with only 2 hits. Yeah yeah spring training and samples and whatnot but this is a guy who in the past was pretty good cause of the contact he made, and it looks like that skill has degraded and this is just basically a more severe continuation of a trend already started in 2022. How long are we going to have to watch flail away cluelessly just because of his defense when he's actually been below average at throwing runners out in his career? If he's got so many intangibles maybe he can work with the apparent heir to the job in AAA and teach him some.

 

[CATS44]

Diaz threw out two of 32 runners last year in AAA.

Overall he threw out 20.5% of runners last year. In 50 games, he gave up 55 SBs.

Think about that while proclaiming the trade any kind of win for Houston.

Even if he eventually becomes a slightly above average hitter as a 1B, he isnt worth anything near what Straw is as a light hitting defensive wizard in center.

 

[Criznit]

Cam Gallagher - 7 K's in 16 AB's now with only 2 hits. Yeah yeah spring training and samples and whatnot but this is a guy who in the past was pretty good cause of the contact he made, and it looks like that skill has degraded and this is just basically a more severe continuation of a trend already started in 2022. How long are we going to have to watch flail away cluelessly just because of his defense when he's actually been below average at throwing runners out in his career? If he's got so many intangibles maybe he can work with the apparent heir to the job in AAA and teach him some.

Yeah, I really hope they don't overthink this one and go with Gallagher. Zunino, Viloria and hopefully Naylor down the road seems like a no-brainer to me.

Also wouldn't rule out another C add as players start getting squeezed out/opt out.

 

[CATS44]

Don't look now, but guess which Guardian expected to make the opening day roster has the highest OPS?

Hint: Its not JRam.

Second hint: Hes a GG centerfielder.

 

[Gson]

Don't look now, but guess which Guardian expected to make the opening day roster has the highest OPS?

Hint: Its not JRam.

Second hint: Hes a GG centerfielder.

a trolling we shall go... a trolling we shall go.. high hoe the merry oh.. a trolling we shall go...

ST stats <=== meh..

 

[CATS44]

I agree that spring stats mean zilch...although some folks like to pick and choose which players stats carry relevance.

But some peripherals, if they continue a trend, do have relevance. Thats what to look for.

 

[KluberSociety]

Don't look now, but guess which Guardian expected to make the opening day roster has the highest OPS?

Hint: Its not JRam.

Second hint: Hes a GG centerfielder.

Andres Gimenez isn't expected to make the opening day roster?

 

[macbdog]

Don't look now, but guess which Guardian expected to make the opening day roster has the highest OPS?

Hint: Its not JRam.

Second hint: Hes a GG centerfielder.

There is a reason I predicted in the prediction thread that Straw would be MVP this year.

 

[CATS44]

Andres Gimenez isn't expected to make the opening day roster?

Gimenez WBC OPS is .619, which brings his numbers down a tad...lol.

 

[CDAV45]

When was the last time the absolute worst team in ST league won anything? Asking for a friend that doesn't put much stock into ST games, but it caught his eye.