2023 Guardians Spring Training Thread

[CDAV45]

I know it’s changed in recent years, but this is the same organization who started Victor Martinez and Carlos Santana at C because they favored their offense at a premium position over their defense. Eventually yes they both moved, but both of them did catch initially. Just something I thought was interesting relative to the posters saying Diaz would never catch for this organization. I think that may have depended on how good his offense gets.

Is there a certain level of acceptability? Maybe a guy can't throw runners out at a good clip, but can handle/manage a pitching staff. Clearly an all defense approach isn't desirable for this team because they let not one, but two defensive stalwarts with poor offense walk and spent a lot more money on a guy that is less defensively and a gamble offensively.

Now apply that logic to our current CFer. Should he perform well below average offensively speaking what is the move?

We also have a SS that is average offensively and below average defensively, but he's only here for this season at the most. Because he is signed through this season and has no versatility whatsoever we're kicking the can down the road with our SS prospects.

 

[thestatman]

Is there a certain level of acceptability? Maybe a guy can't throw runners out at a good clip, but can handle/manage a pitching staff. Clearly an all defense approach isn't desirable for this team because they let not one, but two defensive stalwarts with poor offense walk and spent a lot more money on a guy that is less defensively and a gamble offensively.

Now apply that logic to our current CFer. Should he perform well below average offensively speaking what is the move?

We also have a SS that is average offensively and below average defensively, but he's only here for this season at the most. Because he is signed through this season and has no versatility whatsoever we're kicking the can down the road with our SS prospects.

The shortstop that you love to bash is far more than average offensively. Led the league in triples and infield hits last season while hitting close to 290. Defensively last season he was very steady and is most definitely not below average. 11 errors for a ss is pretty damn good.

Next year Amed will command a contract with nine digits on the bottom line. Teams don't offer that kind of money unless he is pretty damn good. There is not one middle infield prospect that sniffed the high level of his performance last year in the organization. That is why he's here and most likely will be here for the whole season.

My only complaint with him is that he didn't steal nearly enough bases last year having a success rate of 90%. I could say the same thing about Giminez, Kwan, Straw and to a lesser degree, Jose. With the new rules, they should be running teams to death.

 

[CDAV45]

The shortstop that you love to bash is far more than average offensively. Led the league in triples and infield hits last season while hitting close to 290. Defensively last season he was very steady and is most definitely not below average. 11 errors for a ss is pretty damn good.

Next year Amed will command a contract with nine digits on the bottom line. Teams don't offer that kind of money unless he is pretty damn good. There is not one middle infield prospect that sniffed the high level of his performance last year in the organization. That is why he's here and most likely will be here for the whole season.

My only complaint with him is that he didn't steal nearly enough bases last year having a success rate of 90%. I could say the same thing about Giminez, Kwan, Straw and to a lesser degree, Jose. With the new rules, they should be running teams to death.

No, he's not "far more than average offensively" and the statistics support that. He had the 6th most AB in MLB so all those singles don't mean shit. He carried an OPS of .715 with those 9 triples and 11 HR because he swings at everything. His OPS+ is going to hover around 100 give or take a few points. That's as average as it gets. He can make the routine play in the field and has a pretty good arm, but he isn't very good to either side and he's terrible at turning a double play.

I'll take that bet on Amed getting a contract with "nine digits". He's average. A middling SS on both sides of the ball that certainly isn't in the upper echelon of MLB SS's and isn't much(if any) better than IKF. He offers no positional flexibility either. The idea of him getting a $100M dollar contract is laughable.

 

[sportscoach]

No, he's not "far more than average offensively" and the statistics support that. He had the 6th most AB in MLB so all those singles don't mean shit. He carried an OPS of .715 with those 9 triples and 11 HR because he swings at everything. His OPS+ is going to hover around 100 give or take a few points. That's as average as it gets. He can make the routine play in the field and has a pretty good arm, but he isn't very good to either side and he's terrible at turning a double play.

I'll take that bet on Amed getting a contract with "nine digits". He's average. A middling SS on both sides of the ball that certainly isn't in the upper echelon of MLB SS's and isn't much(if any) better than IKF. He offers no positional flexibility either. The idea of him getting a $100M dollar contract is laughable.

On paper, I still feel IKF would actually be better for this roster over Amed since he is stronger defensively with more flexibility and would give more ABs to Arias/Freeman (and an extra year of control).

Amed is going to be a very young free agent so I think teams are a little more inclined to give him a bit more in FA, but that will be a team who can afford it. Though I think he will transition to 3B better than any other position defensively...

 

[KluberSociety]

Prediction: Amed gets less than 9 figures to play 3B not SS. I think it'll be closer than some may think though. See: Willson Contreras

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

The shortstop that you love to bash is far more than average offensively. Led the league in triples and infield hits last season while hitting close to 290. Defensively last season he was very steady and is most definitely not below average. 11 errors for a ss is pretty damn good.

Next year Amed will command a contract with nine digits on the bottom line. Teams don't offer that kind of money unless he is pretty damn good. There is not one middle infield prospect that sniffed the high level of his performance last year in the organization. That is why he's here and most likely will be here for the whole season.

My only complaint with him is that he didn't steal nearly enough bases last year having a success rate of 90%. I could say the same thing about Giminez, Kwan, Straw and to a lesser degree, Jose. With the new rules, they should be running teams to death.

Are you counting the .00 for cents in your "nine digit" claim?

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

It's a contract year so I expect Amed will be stealing more bases. He was 18-for-20 last year, so I agree he should have been running more. Maybe Tito didn't want to risk an out on the bases with Jose at bat.

Hopefully Amed won't look around and see the money other shortstops have been getting in free agency and put a lot of pressure on himself to have a big year. He's already too undisciplined at the dish.

My concern is now that he's seen the kind of crazy money the home run hitting shortstops like Correa and Lindor are getting he will be swinging for the fences this year and that will screw up his swing. He's a big guy at 6'2", 190, and I've seen him drive balls over the center field wall. If he gets off to a slow start at the dish he could start pressing so that's another concern.

But if he just keeps doing what he's doing without worrying about his stats he'll be fine.

 

[CATS44]

A few thoughts...

The article that sportscoach provided on 'worst' teams to win the WS is a fun read, but I dont agree with much of it. One example is the 1959 Dodgers.

The Dodgers were third in the NL in runs scored....third in ERA...and first in defense, per fewest errors. They were a heck of a ball team.

*********

Why would the flexibility of IKF be any kind of advantage. He wouldn't play anywhere, but shortstop, here. We have a 2B and 3B that are pretty good.

While he is a better glove than Amed, his lack of offense doesn't make up the difference, not to mention Ameds leadership position.

This board would be hating on IKF, just as many do on Amed and Straw.

************

Victor and Carlos came up as bat first catchers, but there were differences. They both began playing when the (then) Tribe was abysmal. They also began on teams that featured some pretty fair 1B/DH types, like Thome, Burkes, and Pronk. As the centerpieces in two major trades, both Broussard and LaPorta were gonna get some run at 1B.

 

[sportscoach]

A few thoughts...

The article that sportscoach provided on 'worst' teams to win the WS is a fun read, but I dont agree with much of it. One example is the 1959 Dodgers.

The Dodgers were third in the NL in runs scored....third in ERA...and first in defense, per fewest errors. They were a heck of a ball team.

*********

Why would the flexibility of IKF be any kind of advantage. He wouldn't play anywhere, but shortstop, here. We have a 2B and 3B that are pretty good.

While he is a better glove than Amed, his lack of offense doesn't make up the difference, not to mention Ameds leadership position.

This board would be hating on IKF, just as many do on Amed and Straw.

************

Victor and Carlos came up as bat first catchers, but there were differences. They both began playing when the (then) Tribe was abysmal. They also began on teams that featured some pretty fair 1B/DH types, like Thome, Burkes, and Pronk. As the centerpieces in two major trades, both Broussard and LaPorta were gonna get some run at 1B.

IKF wouldn't be the starter if we had him... If anything he would be the bench guy and someone else would be the starter. At the end of the day, having IKF over Amed would give more ABs to Freeman and Arias aka 400ish each...

 

[CATS44]

Which is why Amed is our SS, and not IKF.

Just about the last thing this org needs is a util MIF.

 

[CATS44]

Looking at the all important (LOL) ST standings, and what they portend...

KC will win the ALC and get the number one seed.

Anaheim will win the West.

Boston will win the East.

Tampa, Toronto, and Seattle will be the WCs.

NY, Houston, and Cleveland won't make it.

In the Senior Circuit...

The Dodgers will win the West and the #1 seed.

St Louis will win the Central.

Philadelphia will win the East.

Atlanta, Cincinnati, and the Cubs will be the WCs.

The Mets and Padres won't make it.

 

[DCTribefan]

Which is why Amed is our SS, and not IKF.

Just about the last thing this org needs is a util MIF.

Looking at the all important (LOL) ST standings, and what they portend...

KC will win the ALC and get the number one seed.

Anaheim will win the West.

Boston will win the East.

Tampa, Toronto, and Seattle will be the WCs.

NY, Houston, and Cleveland won't make it.

In the Senior Circuit...

The Dodgers will win the West and the #1 seed.

St Louis will win the Central.

Philadelphia will win the East.

Atlanta, Cincinnati, and the Cubs will be the WCs.

The Mets and Padres won't make it.

 

[Criznit]

Is Amed Rosario a 100M dollar man?

He is not quite there at this point, but a career year gets him close and maybe over that's for sure.

Early prediction - Amed ends up around 3+WAR for 2023. Signs with the Giants 4 years 72 million - option for 5th and 6th years around 20 mil.

Does that seem high? As @KluberSociety pointed out, see catcher Willson Contreras. Also see our own Josh Bell who is 3 years older than Amed and essentially a DH who can play 1st base. We are paying 16.5 million a year for that and it might be slightly discounted to accommodate his opt out..

If Amed has another solid season or even turns it on (I really like his chances of having the best season he has ever had) in a weak SS FA market - he is going to get paid.. AAV between 15-20 a year seems extremely reasonable IMO.

 

[Gson]

Is Amed Rosario a 100M dollar man?

He is not quite there at this point, but a career year gets him close and maybe over that's for sure.

Early prediction - Amed ends up around 3WAR for 2023. Signs with the Giants 4 years 72 million - option for 5th and 6th years around 20 mil.

Does that seem high? As @KluberSociety pointed out, see catcher Willson Contreras. Also see our own Josh Bell who is 3 years older than Amed and essentially a DH who can play 1st base. We are paying 16.5 million a year for that and it might be slightly discounted to accommodate his opt out..

If Amed has another solid season or even turns it on (I really like his chances of having the best season he has ever had) in a weak SS FA market - he is going to get paid.. AAV between 15-20 a year seems extremely reasonable IMO.

hmmm... both the time and the AAV are a bit strong.. the former by quite a bit.. Amed is more of a year plus option.. kind of player for about half of the AAV you're postulated.. Still great bank.. but...commensurate with his actual results..

 

[Criznit]

hmmm... both the time and the AAV are a bit strong.. the former by quite a bit.. Amed is more of a year plus option.. kind of player for about half of the AAV you're postulated.. Still great bank.. but...commensurate with his actual results..

Agree to disagree. He doesn't turn 28 until November, put up 4.2 BWAR in 2022..

A repeat or improvement in performance in 2023 definitely gets noticed by any semi-deep pocketed team with a need at SS. Possibly 3rd or even 2nd base.

He puts up another subjective 4WAR year, the bidding starts at 12 mil a year at the bottom.