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2023 Guardians Spring Training Thread

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Adding Gallagher AND Quinn reeks of fear IMO. Classic over thinking and playing it "safe"... Too safe and anything but inspiring.
Don't Gallagher and Quinn both need to be added to the roster? Maybe a trade IS coming.
 
Who is the last spot then? Palacios? Quinn? I'd rather go with Richie probably just because he doesn't require a 40 man spot. Kwan and Brennan provide enough defensive versatility.

The remaining battles (actions speak louder than stats)

13th position player -- Palacios and Quinn
Palacios is the guy - just look at the box scores -- he played 2 full (7-8 inn) back-to-back games vs 1 for Quinn and Fry (on split day). Tito loves his PH ability and he played 13 games out of 23 at 2B in winterball and 2 in CLE last year (there was a plan - in case of emergency put Palacios at 2nd and Gimenez at SS).

Quinn does give speed .... but he isn't being demoted just because some smuuck need to play CF for Columbus. It's his 12ks in 24 ABs this month. And, how did speed work out for Clement

Catcher - Collins, Gallagher and Viloria

Gallagher - Just look at today's line-up ... all starters including Gallagher and Gimenez who played Sat night vs Viloria who got eliminated with Columbia earlier hasn't started a meaningful ST game (as line-ups are being juggled now to get a flow going).

Collins - yeah go wild and fall in love with spring training stats where he can hit the scrub AAAA pitchers by the time he is inserted but did he even jump Lavastida in this battle?

Pitcher - It is harder to predict because of injuries and how long they need to come back ... but

Morgan is safe -- he is just the guy that needs everything to work right as his speed doesn't fool anyone. He has earned a few weeks to lock it in. But, when people come back and Tito loses patience, it is another story but he will be given a month or two before that.

Herrin - just got praised in the paper the other day from Willis via Pluto (so in 7th slot)... “We love his stuff. Pitched a half season in AAA. Like how the ball comes out of his hand. There’s a lot to like. He’s throwing 95-97 mph.” A small sample in MLB will give him stuff to work on too this season.

Curry vs Gaddis - Again, how long they think they need before Hentges and Morris comes back as Gaddis can always relieve and keep his arm built up as 6th starter for a couple weeks. And, at the beginning of season, you may need that longer arm in Gaddis to fill innings when starter like Plesac bombs.

Bilous - He is on the 40 man chop block -- as just pitching 4 innings (none recently) in all ST says a lot unless there is an undisclosed injury. (maybe hoping by working with him back field stuff, he can be cut and slide through to COL to develop when he sees that our staff knows what to do and accepts assignment).

Oviedo - Has turned some heads because he has 7-2/3rds innings with 2 outings in last 3 days (18th and 20th) says a lot (more innings than rest of young pack but for Herrin, Curry and Gaddis). But, stats turn heads but not spots on the roster when they already need to create a spot for a catcher. If there was a longer injury for Morris and Hentges, maybe. But, for now, Gaddis or Curry (someone on roster) will fill the last slot and get bumped in a week or two. And, who would they cut after Bilous? They need Lavastida due to the uncertainty at catcher spot after Naylor and no one till low A ball. Sorry, Palacios haters, he isn't being cut but making the roster.


And, for those who say there are a lot of Rosario haters ... we don't hate him. But, as AVS says, there are others in the system that fit a longer-term plan ... if you are not thinking like Guardians FO and something I said in November, when they traded Miller. If they are in love with Rocchio and Rosario has minimal trade value, why not keep Rosario at SS and Gimenez at 2nd until Rocchio is ready towards the end of the year or next year? Thinking like Dolan, why move Gimenez to SS where he may get more money in arbitration than at 2nd (a little mean but $$ drives this team)? And, you don't shift Gimenez to SS for a year, just to switch him back the next if Rocchio > Arias and Freeman and heir apparent. And, if Gimenez isn't extended by next week OD, do you really think he is going to be as he gets closer to FA and $30+ million for a team that will put him at SS)? Guardians saw the writing on the wall by October when they approached his agent (one way or other).

The interesting move will be to see who plays 2nd, SS, OF in Columbus that first week or two with Tena, Rocchio and Freeman now competing for a future with Cleveland with Martinez nipping at their toes in AA with Brito not far behind. Mmmmm, a trade for Brito (2B) after knowing Jones had no future in Cleveland with Ramirez being signed ... but someone else not signed long-term. Just saying ... watch how they move people around.... that tells the story.
 
I have this weird feeling that Zunino, Gallagher, and Bell will combine for less than 1 WAR, maybe worse (negative? hope not)... Just seems like the best time is over for all 3 of these guys (see: Bell's 2nd half struggles too, and now he's striking out more than usual). Gallagher is obviously expendable and might not even be mentioning but the rest were an effort by the FO to dumpster dive and buy low on injured/struggling players hoping for a return to form and it hasn't been happening so far.
 
Adding Gallagher AND Quinn reeks of fear IMO. Classic over thinking and playing it "safe"... Too safe and anything but inspiring.
I'm not even sure what is "safe" about having guys who look utterly clueless at bat
 
The remaining battles (actions speak louder than stats)

13th position player -- Palacios and Quinn
Palacios is the guy - just look at the box scores -- he played 2 full (7-8 inn) back-to-back games vs 1 for Quinn and Fry (on split day). Tito loves his PH ability and he played 13 games out of 23 at 2B in winterball and 2 in CLE last year (there was a plan - in case of emergency put Palacios at 2nd and Gimenez at SS).

Quinn does give speed .... but he isn't being demoted just because some smuuck need to play CF for Columbus. It's his 12ks in 24 ABs this month. And, how did speed work out for Clement

Catcher - Collins, Gallagher and Viloria

Gallagher - Just look at today's line-up ... all starters including Gallagher and Gimenez who played Sat night vs Viloria who got eliminated with Columbia earlier hasn't started a meaningful ST game (as line-ups are being juggled now to get a flow going).

Collins - yeah go wild and fall in love with spring training stats where he can hit the scrub AAAA pitchers by the time he is inserted but did he even jump Lavastida in this battle?

Pitcher - It is harder to predict because of injuries and how long they need to come back ... but

Morgan is safe -- he is just the guy that needs everything to work right as his speed doesn't fool anyone. He has earned a few weeks to lock it in. But, when people come back and Tito loses patience, it is another story but he will be given a month or two before that.

Herrin - just got praised in the paper the other day from Willis via Pluto (so in 7th slot)... “We love his stuff. Pitched a half season in AAA. Like how the ball comes out of his hand. There’s a lot to like. He’s throwing 95-97 mph.” A small sample in MLB will give him stuff to work on too this season.

Curry vs Gaddis - Again, how long they think they need before Hentges and Morris comes back as Gaddis can always relieve and keep his arm built up as 6th starter for a couple weeks. And, at the beginning of season, you may need that longer arm in Gaddis to fill innings when starter like Plesac bombs.

Bilous - He is on the 40 man chop block -- as just pitching 4 innings (none recently) in all ST says a lot unless there is an undisclosed injury. (maybe hoping by working with him back field stuff, he can be cut and slide through to COL to develop when he sees that our staff knows what to do and accepts assignment).

Oviedo - Has turned some heads because he has 7-2/3rds innings with 2 outings in last 3 days (18th and 20th) says a lot (more innings than rest of young pack but for Herrin, Curry and Gaddis). But, stats turn heads but not spots on the roster when they already need to create a spot for a catcher. If there was a longer injury for Morris and Hentges, maybe. But, for now, Gaddis or Curry (someone on roster) will fill the last slot and get bumped in a week or two. And, who would they cut after Bilous? They need Lavastida due to the uncertainty at catcher spot after Naylor and no one till low A ball. Sorry, Palacios haters, he isn't being cut but making the roster.


And, for those who say there are a lot of Rosario haters ... we don't hate him. But, as AVS says, there are others in the system that fit a longer-term plan ... if you are not thinking like Guardians FO and something I said in November, when they traded Miller. If they are in love with Rocchio and Rosario has minimal trade value, why not keep Rosario at SS and Gimenez at 2nd until Rocchio is ready towards the end of the year or next year? Thinking like Dolan, why move Gimenez to SS where he may get more money in arbitration than at 2nd (a little mean but $$ drives this team)? And, you don't shift Gimenez to SS for a year, just to switch him back the next if Rocchio > Arias and Freeman and heir apparent. And, if Gimenez isn't extended by next week OD, do you really think he is going to be as he gets closer to FA and $30+ million for a team that will put him at SS)? Guardians saw the writing on the wall by October when they approached his agent (one way or other).

The interesting move will be to see who plays 2nd, SS, OF in Columbus that first week or two with Tena, Rocchio and Freeman now competing for a future with Cleveland with Martinez nipping at their toes in AA with Brito not far behind. Mmmmm, a trade for Brito (2B) after knowing Jones had no future in Cleveland with Ramirez being signed ... but someone else not signed long-term. Just saying ... watch how they move people around.... that tells the story.
Wonder if we'll see Freeman playing a fair amount of left field for the Clips.
 
There have been many statistical studies done on players changing leagues over the last 15+ years as stat keeping has evolved.

All of them tend to show the same thing. An ~20-25 point change in OPS in year 1 of being a new league, slight increase in strikeout rate, slight decrease in BB rates.

At the same time, quite a few show 2nd half improvements more in line with career averages, although an increase in K rate tends to be something that sticks for a majority of players in year 1 playing in a new league.

It's not easy to spend your entire career in one league and then have the same success in the other year 1. And over the last 15ish years the jump from the NL to AL has been significantly harder to make than the jump from AL to NL.

For a recent example, and since you guys love talking about him here, Amed Rosario's 1st half of 2021 (.673) vs his 2nd half of 2021 (.796) and his subsequent .715 season in 2022, as well as his 20.7% K rate 1st half of 2021 vs his 17.6% K rate in his ~1000 PAs since.

So w/r to Bell. Patience.
 
He will be here until the season ends...then he will get paid. He's most likely gonna get a bunch of All Star votes as well.
Just stop. To think he's going to get a $100M deal is asinine, and I'll take that bet about him being her until the season ends. How much you wanna put on it?
 
We are now at the point in ST where performance begins to matter. Whatever everybody has been working on begins to take a back seat to putting it into successful practice.

So far, Arias, Brennan, Naylor, Bieber, and Gaddis have had outstanding camps. Straw has looked very good.

TMac and Plesac have looked good in their most recent outings. Gaddis has been outstanding.

Bell, Zunino, and Oscar have not looked good at all, but at least Oscar is making contact.

But none of this matters as much as what they do as the ST winds down.
Maybe.

But lets compare notes a bit.

Who is playing SS for this team?

One of us chose Amed. One has insisted for multiple years that Amed wouldn't even be on the team.

Who is playing CF on this team?

One of us sees Straw as a major plus, whatever he hits. One has insisted that Straw at best is a 4th OF.

Who is playing 2B on this team, at an All Star level?

One of us has been insisting since the Lindor trade that Gimenez was gonna be a core piece of this team. One has promoted Arias as better, esp with a bat.

One of us suggested over a year ago that Arias should be groomed to be a super utility guy. One of us insists that he should be starting over either Amed or Gimenez.

(See your post from Mar 31st, 2022)

One of us has scoreboard. One has...uh...gas.
Goodness you don't mind lying do you. I haven't been insisting for "multiple years" that Amed wouldn't even be on the team. When I realized he wasn't much and that there was a lot more potential in Arias and Gimenez is exactly when I started to suggest he be moved. Nice try though.

I know who is playing CF for this team. That wasn't the point of saying what I did. What you did(like you always do) was talk out of both sides of your mouth and I noticed you totally avoided the question which is proof.

Arias was better with the bat and may still be. Gotta find out and nobody was kicking on Gimenez, but he didn't perform well prior to last season so you're still wrong.

Arias is the utility guy because nobody else can do it. Not because Amed is a godsend at SS. In actuality it was you that was suggesting that Arias was a subpar SS which goes against the entire view of everyone involved in professional baseball and the very organization you praise for valuing defense. You're wrong again as usual.

Your scorecard is wrong and everyone here knows you're full of shit except for RCRISTAL and statman. 3 peas in a pod.
 
Gallagher with a 2-run double in the 2nd scoring Naylor and Gimenez...

TMac gives up 4 runs in the 1st 2 innings, but results are better since.
 
There have been many statistical studies done on players changing leagues over the last 15+ years as stat keeping has evolved.

All of them tend to show the same thing. An ~20-25 point change in OPS in year 1 of being a new league, slight increase in strikeout rate, slight decrease in BB rates.

At the same time, quite a few show 2nd half improvements more in line with career averages, although an increase in K rate tends to be something that sticks for a majority of players in year 1 playing in a new league.

It's not easy to spend your entire career in one league and then have the same success in the other year 1. And over the last 15ish years the jump from the NL to AL has been significantly harder to make than the jump from AL to NL.
Has the difference in first year league OPS performance changed since interleague play has increased? Could playing every team this year negate the drop with more games being played against teams the player played against last year?
 
Pries and Oviedo also went down today...

Seems like we got Dodgers B team today for their split with Busch, Outman, Peralta and Muncy leading the way with Smith and Betts still in Miami. Freeman, Vargas, Martinez and Thompson only got 1 hit so far against Wood in their other game. So McK has 1 more game to lock it in.
 
He will be here until the season ends...then he will get paid. He's most likely gonna get a bunch of All Star votes as well.

Amed won't really get all-Star votes outside of the Cleveland (and maybe a couple Mets fans who liked him)
 

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