2023 Guardians Spring Training Thread

[BMAN]

Oh, buddy, yes.

On two separate forums and close to twenty years, its there in black and white.

I don’t give a shit.

 

[CATS44]

Amed at the same age was rated as a plus defender, too.

By everybody.

 

[KluberSociety]

I will leave with this before I get in trouble and pop out of here again.

Almost unanimously all. And there is not much doubt at all that both of those 2 can be plus defenders at the MLB level at SS. Their entire track record as professionals has been just that. Small sample sizes where guys are bouncing around from position to position in their first taste of MLB ball doesn't detract from that.

Listen to the manager talk about them defensively who has been in and around professional baseball for 40+ years and has seen elite level defenders at SS on his team.

The team is more than willing to sacrifice a few more errors in favor of someone who can get to ~30+ more groundballs a year. See Jeremy Pena, or Javy Baez, or Corey Seager. The amount of runs you save getting to ~30+ more ground balls is considerably more than the number of runs you give up committing 5 or 6 more errors.

Is, can be, or will be? This sounds exactly like what was said about Amed. Potential is just that, potential...

Baseball Prospectus | | Eyewitness Scouting Report

legacy.baseballprospectus.com

Glove: 60
Incredibly smooth actions in infield, works through the ball extremely well; attacks ball, rarely back on his heels; plus range at present, could get to plus-plus with footwork development; creative fielder, will go behind back, underhand, etc. when situation dictates; can get too fancy and make mistakes on routine plays, which comes with youth and inexperience - not a long-term problem.

Prospect Pad Retrospective: Mets SS Amed Rosario — College Baseball, MLB Draft, Prospects - Baseball America

Mets shortstop Amed Rosario was a plus defender on the rise when he sat down to talk at the 2016 Baseball America Prospect Pad.

www.baseballamerica.com

Although Rosario's glove was always ahead of his bat...

 

[CATS44]

I don’t give a shit.

Thats your privilege.

 

[BMAN]

Thats your privilege.

Thanks master! Lol get a load of this fucking guy

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Have you ever seen anyone so full of themselves?

Yes.

Me.

But that's okay. I'm perfect.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Amed at the same age was rated as a plus defender, too.

By everybody.

Matt LaPorta was rated as a tremendous hitter

Do you think that makes him a tremendous hitter? Should we bring him back?

Jose Ramirez was rated as a worse hitter than Matt LaPorta.

Does that mean we shouldn't have given Jose a shot at the majors?

Seriously Cats, figure yourself out. You're saying some really stupid things and it's getting obnoxious.

 

[CDAV45]

Yes.

Me.

But that's okay. I'm perfect.

Sorry, but you don't even compare. That level of arrogance is rarely obtained.

 

[LL3]

Yes.

Me.

But that's okay. I'm perfect.

Wow, that was a 2 DVD set!!!

 

[CDAV45]

Matt LaPorta was rated as a tremendous hitter

Do you think that makes him a tremendous hitter? Should we bring him back?

Jose Ramirez was rated as a worse hitter than Matt LaPorta.

Does that mean we shouldn't have given Jose a shot at the majors?

Seriously Cats, figure yourself out. You're saying some really stupid things and it's getting obnoxious.

LaPorta was a tremendous hitter and then came the injuries. Helluva nice guy too.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

LaPorta was a tremendous hitter and then came the injuries. Helluva nice guy too.

Use any failed prospect.

Andy Marte?

 

[CDAV45]

Use any failed prospect.

Andy Marte?

There ya go!

 

[KluberSociety]

The point is that there is a huge difference between the "is" and "will be", versus the "can be".

Especially if we're penciling guys into roles without any real backup plan other than more prospects (ultimately I think strength in numbers wins out but this year is more of a stretch), we need to be looking at the middle part of the bell curve of the present day, not dreaming about the potential that they may have.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Can be, or will be? This sounds exactly like what was said about Amed. Potential is just that, potential...

Baseball Prospectus | | Eyewitness Scouting Report

legacy.baseballprospectus.com

Prospect Pad Retrospective: Mets SS Amed Rosario — College Baseball, MLB Draft, Prospects - Baseball America

Mets shortstop Amed Rosario was a plus defender on the rise when he sat down to talk at the 2016 Baseball America Prospect Pad.

www.baseballamerica.com

Alright, one last since you replied with what I expected you to reply with.

Amed has always been a plus vertical defender at SS. What made him scouted as a plus defender as a minor leaguer.

I myself scouted him as a plus defender, I bet I can go find my old scouting report card somewhere on my home computer. But that was because he was incredibly gifted going in and going back on balls, which most people agree is the harder skill to have than going left to right. He still is one of the best SS's in baseball vertically as well, especially on balls hit in front of him. But he was not a plus going side to side.

So much of your side-to-side range as a MIFer is footwork and a natural feel to read the ball off the bat. Amed never really took the steps there you would expect from someone with his speed. He is really good at reading balls hit right at him, but he struggles to read and react to the ball off the bat when it isn't hit right at him. Big reason why him in the OF failed as well.

But back to the source you are quoting. Assumption is a major part of scouting services. If someone has range coming in and back mixed with plus speed and a good arm, the assumption can be made that they are also going to be a plus defender going side to side. As a scouting service, like Baseball Prospectus, you are limited in the times you are able to see players. Which means if you don't get to see them make every play in game you have to assume using other data at your disposal to fill in the gaps on their missing traits you didn't see, or fill it in during warmups, which a lot of scouting services do. You are also extrapolating a handful of games you are seeing in person to come up with the scouting report for how that player is for the remaining 99% of their season.

And warmups are an awful thing to base scouting reports on, as are sim games when conditions are being controlled, but when you are limited in your access to players by not being associated with the team and needing to scout all 30 teams instead of focusing on one team, it helps to fill in the gaps. But it is assumption based.

It's why guys like Bieber slip through the cracks on these services. Or scouting reports are so outdated it doesn't even seem like the scouting service is describing the actual player you are wanting to read about. I have always said how flawed these services are, and I will continue to do so. Take all of them with a grain of salt. They don't have the manpower to effectively scout a player 100%, they just don't see them enough, and in turn have to rely on assumption or a controlled environment to fill in the gaps.

But Amed is and was a much better vertical defender than Arias, Rocchio is probably just a tick below Amed in that respect, but both are significantly better than Amed ever was at going to their left and to their right. So yes, all 3 are scouted as plus defenders. But the things they do as a plus are significantly different.

 

[KluberSociety]

Alright, one last since you replied with what I expected you to reply with.

Amed has always been a plus vertical defender at SS. What made him scouted as a plus defender as a minor leaguer.

I myself scouted him as a plus defender, I bet I can go find my old scouting report card somewhere on my home computer. But that was because he was incredibly gifted going in and going back on balls, which most people agree is the harder skill to have than going left to right. He still is one of the best SS's in baseball vertically as well, especially on balls hit in front of him. But he was not a plus going side to side.

So much of your side-to-side range as a MIFer is footwork and a natural feel to read the ball off the bat. Amed never really took the steps there you would expect from someone with his speed. He is really good at reading balls hit right at him, but he struggles to read and react to the ball off the bat when it isn't hit right at him. Big reason why him in the OF failed as well.

But back to the source you are quoting. Assumption is a major part of scouting services. If someone has range coming in and back mixed with plus speed and a good arm, the assumption can be made that they are also going to be a plus defender going side to side. As a scouting service, like Baseball Prospectus, you are limited in the times you are able to see players. Which means if you don't get to see them make every play in game you have to assume using other data at your disposal to fill in the gaps on their missing traits you didn't see, or fill it in during warmups, which a lot of scouting services do.

And warmups are an awful thing to base scouting reports on, but when you are limited in your access to players by not being associated with the team and needing to scout all 30 teams instead of focusing on one team, it helps to fill in the gaps. But it is assumption based.

It's why guys like Bieber slip through the cracks on these services. Or scouting reports are so outdated it doesn't even seem like the scouting service is describing the actual player you are wanting to read about. I have always said how flawed these services are, and I will continue to do so. Take all of them with a grain of salt. They don't have the manpower to effectively scout a player 100%, they just don't see them enough, and in turn have to rely on assumption or a controlled environment to fill in the gaps.

But Amed is and was a much better vertical defender than Arias, Rocchio is probably just a tick below Amed in that respect, but both are significantly better than Amed ever was at going to their left and to their right. So yes, all 3 are scouted as plus defenders. But the things they do as a plus are significantly different.

Thanks great reply