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2023 NBA Draft

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Miller has gigantic upside. A 6”9 athletic long wing with those ball skills, frame and shooting is very very valuable in todays nba game. If his character checks out he is going top 3 or top 5. He could end up being a top 10 to 15 player ( maybe even higher) in 4 years if he stays healthy and is dedicated to his craft.Any gm who is in the lottery is gonna have to think long and hard about passing after the top 2 guys Victor and Scoot are gone .
 
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ajz20 said:
Miller has gigantic upside. A 6”9 athletic long wing with those ball skills, frame and shooting is very very valuable in todays nba game. If his character checks out he is going top 3 or top 5. He could end up being a top 10 to 15 player ( maybe even higher) in 4 years if he stays healthy and is dedicated to his craft.Any gm who is in the lottery is gonna have to think long and hard about passing after the top 2 guys Victor and Scoot are gone .
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Where would you put his intangibles right now on a scale of JR Smith to Kevin porter Jr?
 
Adam said:
Where would you put his intangibles right now on a scale of JR Smith to Kevin porter Jr?
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Was listening to Barlow on the locked on draft podcast and the kid really did not have any red flags up to this point . He supposedly is very well liked by his teammates . He even said “ he is not like Kevin Porter Jr” . I think this is a horrible event and life lesson but it does not mean the kid is going to be a huge problem off the court . Just because people are angry ( and I do understand the anger) does not mean this guy is going to be a cancer on an organization.

Barlow has some really good perspective as a long term scout internationally and in the states. He also has a ton of contacts inside NbA front offices .The question is how dedicated Miller is to reach his Ceiling? As of now hé did not think there is evidence that it is a major issue.

Again there will be a deep dive on his background and character by those involved . Maybe more gets unraveled but as of now I think he is going to become a top tier Nba wing in 3 to 4 years.
 
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ajz20 said:
Was listening to Barlow on the locked on draft podcast and the kid really did not have any red flags up to this point . He supposedly is very well liked by his teammates . He even said “ he is not like Kevin Porter Jr” . I think this is a horrible event and life lesson but it does not mean the kid is going to be a huge problem off the court . Just because people are angry ( and I do understand the anger) does not mean this guy is going to be a cancer on an organization.

Barlow has some really good perspective as a long term scout internationally and in the states. He also has a ton of contacts inside NbA front offices .The question is how dedicated Miller is to reach his Ceiling? As of now hé did not think there is evidence that urit is a major issue.

Again there will be a deep dive on his background and character by those involved . Maybe more gets unraveled but as of now I think he is going to become a top tier Nba wing in 3 to 4 years.
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This is what I've been saying. The kid hasnt had a single issue until his teammate committed a horrible crime. KPJ had mental issues since his dad died and grew up in and around drugs and gangs. JR Smith was just immature (I dont think he ever had a criminal charge, correct me if wrong). If the thirsty police in Alabama can't find charges for Miller, then I'm ok not banishing the kid. He's also far more talented than KPJ and JR ever were. Like all of sports, the risk matches the potential. How many teams wish they didn't pass on Randy Moss?

I'm not advocating the Cavaliers trade any of the Core 4 to get Miller, but if teams are foolish enough to let him slide to round 2, or a purchasable round 1 pick, I'm *absolutely* looking to draft him. His size and skillset fills the last hole in the starting lineup, while allowing a staggering of other players/lineups. I dont think he'll have character issues, but I think what the franchise has built could course correct him if he did.

This isnt Gilbert Arenas or Javaris Crittenden.
 
adam81king said:
This isnt Gilbert Arenas or Javaris Crittenden.
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I think we'll find that out at a later date. He'll be one of the more scrutinized prospects, so if there are additional flags we'll hear about them I'm sure.

I just give Miller a lot less slack for the string of behavior post incident. He wasn't entirely truthful with the AD and coach, he has made no public statement that I have seen expressing remorse, he refuses (or allows the university to refuse) to get in front of a mic to answer questions and days removed from someone losing their life (in an incident he was peripherally involved in), he continued to do a pre-game intro that involved someone searching him for a weapon.

It isn't so much as each of these is so egregious individually but it is just a pattern of behavior that is pretty concerning. Surely, someone will roll the dice and give him a shot.....I don't believe anyone's argument is that he won't be drafted....he will be drafted and probably in the top 5....it is just that he is someone who I personally would be really uneasy spending a high pick on. There's certainly a world where it works out more times than not......but the times it does not, are probably going to cost a GM their job.

Typically guys don't become a "problem" pre NBA........why? Because they are really insulated from trouble as an elite athlete. Get caught doing something dumb in high school? 99 times out of 100, the athlete is getting a slap on the wrist and told not to do it again. Get caught doing something dumb in college? Same. In Miller's case, he hasn't so much as missed a practice. His coach even managed to convince himself that he was at the wrong place, at the wrong time. When guys truly start to get in trouble, it tends to be when they are handed millions of dollars, are removed from the insulation they have received in high school / college and are largely left to their own devices outside of team activities.
 
I'mWithDan said:
I think we'll find that out at a later date. He'll be one of the more scrutinized prospects, so if there are additional flags we'll hear about them I'm sure.

I just give Miller a lot less slack for the string of behavior post incident. He wasn't entirely truthful with the AD and coach, he has made no public statement that I have seen expressing remorse, he refuses (or allows the university to refuse) to get in front of a mic to answer questions and days removed from someone losing their life (in an incident he was peripherally involved in), he continued to do a pre-game intro that involved someone searching him for a weapon.

It isn't so much as each of these is so egregious individually but it is just a pattern of behavior that is pretty concerning. Surely, someone will roll the dice and give him a shot.....I don't believe anyone's argument is that he won't be drafted....he will be drafted and probably in the top 5....it is just that he is someone who I personally would be really uneasy spending a high pick on. There's certainly a world where it works out more times than not......but the times it does not, are probably going to cost a GM their job.

Typically guys don't become a "problem" pre NBA........why? Because they are really insulated from trouble as an elite athlete. Get caught doing something dumb in high school? 99 times out of 100, the athlete is getting a slap on the wrist and told not to do it again. Get caught doing something dumb in college? Same. In Miller's case, he hasn't so much as missed a practice. His coach even managed to convince himself that he was at the wrong place, at the wrong time. When guys truly start to get in trouble, it tends to be when they are handed millions of dollars, are removed from the insulation they have received in high school / college and are largely left to their own devices outside of team activities.
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My memory could be a bit off, it's been several years since, but doesn't this situation kind of give off the same vibes as Josh Jackson as an NBA prospect? 5-star recruit, top 5 pick, etc etc going into the draft, and iirc he had no hints of off-court issues in high school. He got into some trouble in college (much milder than Miller), had some anger management issues, and seemed to be incredibly immature more than anything else. That absolutely followed him into the pros and more than anything else he seemed to be unable to put in the work and develop as a prospect the way he needed to. Being part of the Suns back then, with the organizational instability, definitely didn't help things.
 
Miller much different prospect than Jackson in terms of skill, frame and nba fit. I’m not sure Jackson even if he had all his issues off the table was ever going to be a premium wing . Maybe a rotational player but his offense was Okoro level raw.
 
ajz20 said:
Miller much different prospect than Jackson in terms of skill, frame and nba fit. I’m not sure Jackson even if he had all his issues off the table was ever going to be a premium wing . Maybe a rotational player but his offense was Okoro level raw.
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I feel like hindsight makes people make declarations on prospects that just flatly were not true. Josh Jackson didn't pan out......but he profiled as a really, really good wing prospect. Unless you are prepared to say Tatum was also an Okoro level offensive player?

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Honestly, one of my favorite things about having a draft data base is doing stuff like this. It is always interesting how outcomes tend to erase past perceptions about guys. This isn't a dig at you at all for the record, everyone is guilty of it, ESPECIALLY national media types who cover the draft. It is hard not to consider the known outcome when talking about prospect profiles.......and Josh Jackson had a really, really good one......one of just a handful on the wing that were that good, that didn't pan out.
 
I'mWithDan said:
I feel like hindsight makes people make declarations on prospects that just flatly were not true. Josh Jackson didn't pan out......but he profiled as a really, really good wing prospect. Unless you are prepared to say Tatum was also an Okoro level offensive player?

Screen-Shot-2023-03-01-at-2-40-46-PM.png


Honestly, one of my favorite things about having a draft data base is doing stuff like this. It is always interesting how outcomes tend to erase past perceptions about guys. This isn't a dig at you at all for the record, everyone is guilty of it, ESPECIALLY national media types who cover the draft. It is hard not to consider the known outcome when talking about prospect profiles.......and Josh Jackson had a really, really good one......one of just a handful on the wing that were that good, that didn't pan out.
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Yeah, I was thinking that as well. I don’t think I was a big fan of Jackson due to his wonky jumper and bad FT shooting, but he basically checked every box an elite prospect could have.

He was a projected top 5 pick ever since maybe his junior year, awesome athlete, he led a top team in Kansas, even his concerns on 3 point range were somewhat quieted by his shooting in college.

He’s a good what-if looking back. Were his limitations on court causing him to fail? Or was it because of his immaturity and lack of work ethic combined with a horrible developmental situation in Phoenix?
 
In fairness to Josh Jackson, he did manage to carve out an okay career as a 10th man type. Not at all what he was expected to be, but probably better than a number of end of bench guys in the current NBA. I mean Stanley Johnson is still around and I am not sure he has anything better than Josh other than a little height and length.
 
If the Cavs are going to find a way to package the second rounder from the Warriors and move into round one Maxwell Lewis is more than worth a look!
 
I'd love to take a 2nd round flyer on Oscar Tshiebie -- 24rebs, 8pts, 2ast, 2stls, 2blks
 
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