2024 - 2025 Guardians Off Season Thread

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macbdog said:
You nailed it. You will get some serious whatabouts from those whom your message has gone over their heads. But I bet even the FO and coaches share your view.

When you play PovertyBall™, the best you are going to get is potential. And to their credit, they assembled a decent bit of potential here. It could blow up, they are taking several risks here, but the alternative would be retreads or worse. They have to take risks and bank on their development approach and patience. Going to be fun if they can get, say, 3 of these guys to take a step forward and it will be a blast if they get 4. Got to wait until the season starts to see who will.
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Good post Mac. You described what I was thinking better than I did.
 
The team is not in rebuild. The moves this winter are about rearranging assets first, and rearranging finances later. Trading Gimenez may have been about future financial flexibility, but it was also about making the team more competitive in 2025.

The biggest need for 2025 was to fix the present rotation. Ortiz wasn't brought in to compete for a BOR spot. He was brought in to be our #2 or #3. The exact order will be determined by Ortiz and Williams. The rest of the candidates will compete for the last two spots.

Because he is out of options and had success in the past, TMac will get first crack at one of those two remaining spots.
 
CalBuckeyeRob said:
Given the trade strategy to get Ortiz, I have to believe the team sees him well above dark horse success candidate. I see him as the #3 in the rotation behind Bibee and Williams.
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CATS44 said:
The team is not in rebuild. The moves this winter are about rearranging assets first, and rearranging finances later. Trading Gimenez may have been about future financial flexibility, but it was also about making the team more competitive in 2025.

The biggest need for 2025 was to fix the present rotation. Ortiz wasn't brought in to compete for a BOR spot. He was brought in to be our #2 or #3. The exact order will be determined by Ortiz and Williams. The rest of the candidates will compete for the last two spots.

Because he is out of options and had success in the past, TMac will get first crack at one of those two remaining spots.
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Ortiz definitely got more upside right now than Lively or TMac... He's still gotta develop one more pitch since he's only got a mix of hard throwing stuff at the moment...

If the dude can consistently throw something 80 mph from the same slot as his fastball... He's gonna be Cy Young lethal... Right now his slider is 85 mph and his 3 fastballs, cutter 91, sinker 94, 4-seam 95, all have similar speeds... His changeup is around 90 mph... He doesn't have something to really get the hitters off balance yet...

He doesn't miss bats... His BABIP and FIP state he got luckier than his ERA would state... His SO rate for his type of arm isn't that great...He's not a finished product, so he's may not take the front of the rotation cause of that.

He was brought in to be apart of the rotation, but he's not as experience as someone like TMac and not as polished as Lively, hence why I have him at the end of the rotation... Talent doesn't mean much if you are still developing...
 
sportscoach said:
Ortiz definitely got more upside right now than Lively or TMac... He's still gotta develop one more pitch since he's only got a mix of hard throwing stuff at the moment...

If the dude can consistently throw something 80 mph from the same slot as his fastball... He's gonna be Cy Young lethal... Right now his slider is 85 mph and his 3 fastballs, cutter 91, sinker 94, 4-seam 95, all have similar speeds... His changeup is around 90 mph... He doesn't have something to really get the hitters off balance yet...

He doesn't miss bats... His BABIP and FIP state he got luckier than his ERA would state... His SO rate for his type of arm isn't that great...He's not a finished product, so he's may not take the front of the rotation cause of that.

He was brought in to be apart of the rotation, but he's not as experience as someone like TMac and not as polished as Lively, hence why I have him at the end of the rotation... Talent doesn't mean much if you are still developing...
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Agree that Ortiz has more upside and so does Cecconi who was recently taught a change up by Gallen I believe. Honestly, I see Ortiz and Cecconi having similar upsides which is solid MOR SP with the talent to be a bit more if their development reaches its pinnacle. My excitement for those 2 may prove to be undeserving, but right now I'm super excited to see what they can do.
 
CATS44 said:
The team is not in rebuild. The moves this winter are about rearranging assets first, and rearranging finances later. Trading Gimenez may have been about future financial flexibility, but it was also about making the team more competitive in 2025.

The biggest need for 2025 was to fix the present rotation. Ortiz wasn't brought in to compete for a BOR spot. He was brought in to be our #2 or #3. The exact order will be determined by Ortiz and Williams. The rest of the candidates will compete for the last two spots.

Because he is out of options and had success in the past, TMac will get first crack at one of those two remaining spots.
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Admittedly I could be wrong, but if TMac regains his form to start the 25 season my gut tells me his time with the Guardians will be short lived. I love the kid, but he cannot be relied on and if a team wants to take a chance and give decent value for him then they should probably consider it.

I agree that this team is not in rebuild, but I think they are in constant retooling. Clearly they are not afraid to compete with a young roster and I think they've proven it can be done. We've discussed what this team needs ad nauseum. The question is are the answers to those issues in house with more prospects? My guess is yes, they'll be looking to fill the needs from within.
 
As I pointed out yesterday, we are seen by execs as the best in developing pitching. But, we also got so love (close 2nd) on hoarding prospects (as CATS would agree too -- over hoarding). Tampa won best at acquiring talent (by landslide -- Cleveland only got 1 or 2 votes -- way down). Bazzana got some love as he was tied for 3rd in best hit tool (not to be confused with best hitting prospect where he only got 1 or 2 votes).

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I believe the hoarding could also be interpreted as other orgs being interested/high in our prospects, especially with the Orioles at 1 on that list. Orioles also had a deep system recently, so other teams automatically believe prospects ranked outside the top 5 or 10 are like throw ins
 
My gut tells me Kwan won't back down. Meet his number or go to arbitration similar to Bieber a couple seasons ago.

An extension would be awesome.

 
Tondo said:
I believe the hoarding could also be interpreted as other orgs being interested/high in our prospects, especially with the Orioles at 1 on that list. Orioles also had a deep system recently, so other teams automatically believe prospects ranked outside the top 5 or 10 are like throw ins
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The fact that Cleveland didn't have to suck for 15 consecutive years to build such a deep farm makes me even more appreciative of what and how they've done it.
 
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