2024-25 Season | Game #4 | Cavs @ Knicks | Oct. 28, 2024

[Wham with the Right Hand]

The 3-0 Cavaliers play their third road game out of four as they head to the Big Apple to take on the Knicks. After a three-game warmup against opponents who have combined for one win, the Cavs face a tough stretch with games against the Knicks, Magic, Bucks, Bucks, Pelicans, and Warriors in the next 11 days. Those teams are a combined 8-3.

The Knicks are 1-1, having been pounded 132-109 by the Celtics and bouncing back to beat the Pacers 123-98 in a game they led by 31 after three quarters.

The Knicks are thin on the front line with Mitchell Robinson and Precious Achiuwa injured. In addition, starting forward Josh Hart injured his ankle in Thursday's game and is listed as a game time decision.

The Knicks have listed star forward Josh Hart as “questionable” for Monday night’s game due to an ankle injury. Hart was seen grabbing at his leg during the Indiana game but managed to play through the discomfort. In his 37 minutes of action, Hart recorded 20 points, 10 rebounds, three assists, and a +35 plus/minus, making him one of the team’s standout performers.

Reserve guard Miles McBride is also listed as a game time decision with a knee issue.

The Knicks are very balanced offensively with five players in double figures after two games; Jalen Brunson (24.0 ppg), Mikel Bridges (18.5), Karl-Anthony Towns (16.5), Josh Hart (16.0), and Miles McBride (15.0). They play an 8-man rotation as they only have three healthy players on their bench with NBA experience; center Jericho Sims (career 2.6 ppg average) and guards Cameron Payne (6’3”), and Miles McBride (6’1”).

The Knicks are very small with Robinson and Achiuwa out. KAT is 7’0”, of course, but the other four starters are 6’7”, 6’6”, 6’4”, and 6’2”. Sims is 6’10” and subs in for KAT, so for the entire game the Knicks will have only one player taller than 6’7” on the floor.

If Hart and/or McBride can't play the Knicks are screwed.

The two game sample is too small to draw hard conclusions, but it’s clear the Knicks have an excellent (but small) starting lineup; the bench is the problem. Cameron Payne is a 10-year vet with a 7.9 ppg career scoring average. Miles McBride is in his 4th season and seems to be emerging as a scorer. Last year he averaged 8.3 ppg but shot 41% on 3’s. He’s 7-for-8 on 3’s so far this year. Sims is 6’10”, 250, in his 4th season. Last year he averaged 3.0 ppg in 19.5 minutes.

Offensively the Knicks are only averaging 28.5 three-pointers per game, which ranks 28th. The also rank 28th in field goal attempts per game. They take their time and attack the rim. The Knicks average just 19.5 assists per game (28.5 for the Cavs), so they play more isolation, especially with Brunson. This game will feature a contrast in styles with the Knicks being more deliberate versus the Cavs’ uptempo pace. The Knicks are last in the NBA in pace while the Cavs are 12th. Caution: These rankings are based on 2-3 games.

With the Knicks using an 8-man rotation they can’t afford to play at a high tempo. They probably prefer to walk the ball up and limit possessions so their starters can play as many minutes as possible. If the Cavs constantly push the ball up the floor and make the Knicks run it would be to their advantage.

My guess is the Cavs will pound it inside to Mobley and Allen in the half court offense. If they start with Allen, Mobley, and Wade they will have a huge height advantage at PF and SF. The Knicks can’t afford to get in foul trouble. When either Anunoby or Hart gets a breather they will have to play three guards because they have nothing at forward behind those two. And at 6’4” it’s debatable whether Hart is actually a forward or a just guard that rebounds really well.

The Brunson/Garland PG matchup will be fun to watch along with the Anunoby/Mobley matchup. OG Anunoby is an excellent defender and I assume he’ll take Mobley. Josh Hart, another great defender, will take Mitchell. The KAT/Allen matchup will also be a war.

I think these teams are pretty even in their starting 5’s with maybe the Knicks having the edge with Strus out, but the bench appears to be a big advantage for the Cavs. If Josh Hart can't go they're in a lot of trouble as the report I saw said McBride (who is also a GTD) will start. I assume Hart will be on the floor if at all possible, but if his ankle is bothering him it will be a factor.

The Knicks have had two days off and are at home. They held the Pacers to 98 points on Thursday and beat them badly. This should be a good one.

Here are a couple of previews if you want more detail. Both NBA.com and ESPN ranked the Knicks 3rd behind Boston and OKC prior to the season. That seems really high, but the big factor is that the Knicks went 20-3 with Anunoby last year, and this year they will have him for the entire season. Getting KAT is expected to give them a boost as well.

NBA.com: #3 NEW YORK KNICKS

It’s amazing how much the Knicks have overhauled their roster in the last 10 months, adding OG Anunoby, Mikal Bridges and Karl-Anthony Towns via trade. Of course, Jalen Brunson remains the centerpiece.

Preseason takeaways:

The Knicks’ starting lineup played 80 preseason minutes together, with that being the most for any preseason lineup by a wide margin. It had one great game (plus-23 in 22.4 minutes) against the Wizards but was otherwise outscored by six points and shot just 15-for-63 (24%) from 3-point range over its four total games together.

As of Monday morning, the Knicks had 12 players under contract (not including two-way deals). Two of them — Mitchell Robinson and Precious Achiuwa — are unavailable to start the season, and another two — Pacôme Dadiet and Tyler Kolek — are rookies taken with the 25th and 34th picks in the Draft. So regarding experienced players on their bench, they have Cameron Payne (6-foot-3), Miles McBride (6–foot-1) and Jericho Sims (27 total playoff minutes last season).

Something to watch in Week 1:

Depth and size. See above. The Towns trade left the Knicks a little thin (and small) on the wings, and the injuries have left them thin up front. It’s probably not yet time for Josh Hart to play 48 minutes a night, so some inexperienced guys will need to be thrown into the fire and the Knicks might not have the rebounding advantage that they’ve had in the past.

The Knicks…were 12-15 (fifth best) in games played between the top eight teams in the East last season, though that breaks down to 5-1 with Anunoby and 7-14 without him.

ESPN: 3. New York Knicks

Projected wins: 40.6 [They project a 41-41 record but rank them 3rd???]

When we last saw them:

Even without star forward Julius Randle and center Mitchell Robinson, who'd been ruled out due to surgical procedures, the Knicks were on the cusp of reaching the Eastern Conference finals as they hosted the Pacers at Madison Square Garden in Game 7. But then the wheels came off in just about every conceivable way, with OG Anunoby -- who tried to come back from a hamstring strain prematurely -- hobbling around from the start, and star guard Jalen Brunson fracturing his shooting hand later in the game. By that point, the snakebit New York club lacked the horses to close out Indiana -- let alone take on the eventual champion Celtics in the next round.

Biggest strength and weakness:

The club's offense, which at times was bogged down last season when teams sought to wall off Brunson, should be supercharged this season with the high-profile addition of Karl-Anthony Towns. The duo of Brunson and Towns will be difficult to stop: Is it more important to sink down and seal off Brunson's ability to get to the basket, or is the priority to stay with Towns if and when he stays on the perimeter?

Regardless, the Knicks will now have better floor spacing. New York's depth undoubtedly took a hit with the loss of [Julius] Randle and Donte DiVincenzo in a trade to Minnesota for Towns. Randle was a two-time All-NBA selection and was one of the toughest players on a team, and DiVincenzo -- on one of the league's best contracts -- hit the third-most 3-pointers in the NBA in 2023-24.

Because of the bruising style the Knicks play under coach Tom Thibodeau, depth always matters; particularly on the wings. Speaking of wings, the Knicks might have the best defensive duo in Anunoby and Mikal Bridges. But there's still a question of rim protection with Towns, who primarily played power forward in Minnesota. This will be a shift for the big man, especially with Robinson, the backup center, unavailable for the first few months.

Knicks in NBA Rank:

Jalen Brunson (12), 
Karl-Anthony Towns (30), 
Mikal Bridges (38)
, OG Anunoby (51), 
Josh Hart (61), 
Mitchell Robinson (82)

Number to watch: Defense of Bridges and Anunoby

Over the past three seasons, Bridges has given up a 42.9% field goal percentage as the contesting defender, fifth lowest among 50 players to have contested at least 2,500 shots. Alongside Bridges on the wing will be Anunoby. The Knicks went 20-3 in Anunoby's 23 games compared with 30-29 in his absence (from injury or pre-trade).

 

[MikeOC33]

So...we can expect Cameron Payne to go off for 30+?

Sure seems like when the Cavs catch a team shorthanded, or missing a main cog, that some rando off the bench clangs in a career high. Cavs are catching them at a good time- injuries, and still in new player adjustment phase...so run em into the ground and crash the boards. Dash, crash, and smash.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

It's crazy that they only have 12 players under contract and two of them are rookie 2nd round picks. With two more injured they're down to 8 guys with any NBA experience. Neither Robinson or Achiuwa is expected back for a few weeks (Achiuwa) or months (Robinson).

Their starters are going to be fried by the end of the season. Two nights ago they were up by 31 on Indy after three quarters and Hart still played 37 minutes even though his ankle was bothering him. They have zero backup forwards who have played in an NBA game.

Milwaukee and Philadelphia are 1-2. Embiid is going to miss 17 games by skipping at least the first three plus not playing in any back-to-backs. Plus any more due to injury. Khris Middleton is not back yet for the Bucks after surgery on both ankles. Dame is 34 and Lopez 36.

The door to the #2 seed is wide open. Only 4 of the 15 Eastern Conference teams are over .500. Nine of them are below .500. It's very early, of course, but the Knicks are very vulnerable to injury to any of their starters while the Sixers and Bucks both have age and injury issues and the season is barely underway.

 

[Adam]

I worry about us looking to pound the ball inside to mobley. It looked terrible when we started the Detroit game that way. I hope instead they get him cutting through the lane as a big target on the move. Draw some fouls and get some interior shots. Also need okoro to shoot so we can use him against Brunson. Id match up mobley on bridges and wade on OG

 

[2 For The Brew]

Thanks for the write up @Wham with the Right Hand but unless I missed it there was no reference to the Knicks losing Isaiah Hartenstein in the off season. That coupled with giving up Divincenzo means we’re seeing a very different team than last year’s edition.

On paper the offseason moves made them better but I’m not sure. IH and DD fit Thibs and the other Nova guys style to a T. Physical, pugnacious, bullying, aggressive — they also fit NYC’s self image of toughness and arrogance. Not sure KAT fits that although he is a much better BB player overall than IH.

I also wonder about Thibs running these guys into the ground another season.

Cavaliers need to push the tempo and beat this team with sheer numbers and relentless pressure. We need to be the aggressor on both ends of the floor.

I know many people are dogging Okoro but I love that second quarter lineup where he’s on with Jerome, Mitchell or Garland, Niang and Mobley. That’s a bitch of a group to score on. No, Niang is not a defensive star but in a team concept playing against backups he’s a body that can disrupt an offense a bit if he’s got good defenders around him.

I’m loving the ten man rotation and how we‘re playing team basketball moving off the ball. Cavaliers are must see TV.

 

[DanielHSSports]

This is not a make or break game by any means for the Cavs at this point in the season but it is going to be interesting how they handle this one as NYK is the first real test of the season. Even short-handed, NYK still plays a physical brand of basketball which has been one of Cleveland's weaknesses. Even with a depth advantage, I still worry about Cleveland being undersized at the wing, especially against OG. KAT is a tough guard too because of his length and athleticism. Plus Hart seems to love playing Cleveland. The Cavs are going to be playing teams with more length in the next few weeks at the wing, which is something that still needs to be addressed through trade if they really hope to take the next step this year.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

This is not a make or break game by any means for the Cavs at this point in the season but it is going to be interesting how they handle this one as NYK is the first real test of the season. Even short-handed, NYK still plays a physical brand of basketball which has been one of Cleveland's weaknesses. Even with a depth advantage, I still worry about Cleveland being undersized at the wing, especially against OG. KAT is a tough guard too because of his length and athleticism. Plus Hart seems to love playing Cleveland. The Cavs are going to be playing teams with more length in the next few weeks at the wing, which is something that still needs to be addressed through trade if they really hope to take the next step this year.

This is a game where having Dean Wade is really important. Without him, we're undersized and weak defensively on the wing. With him, we are big and strong defensively on the wing. Huge plus against both the Knicks and Celtics.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Game day!!!!

If we beat the Knicks then I couldn’t care less about my mold problem!

 

[2 For The Brew]

This is not a make or break game by any means for the Cavs at this point in the season but it is going to be interesting how they handle this one as NYK is the first real test of the season. Even short-handed, NYK still plays a physical brand of basketball which has been one of Cleveland's weaknesses. Even with a depth advantage, I still worry about Cleveland being undersized at the wing, especially against OG. KAT is a tough guard too because of his length and athleticism. Plus Hart seems to love playing Cleveland. The Cavs are going to be playing teams with more length in the next few weeks at the wing, which is something that still needs to be addressed through trade if they really hope to take the next step this year.

They lost Hartenstein and Divincenzo. I’m not convinced they are as physical as they were last year. KAT is on paper a significant upgrade to IH but how the new Knicks compare to the rest of the East remains to be seen.

 

[DanielHSSports]

This is a game where having Dean Wade is really important. Without him, we're undersized and weak defensively on the wing. With him, we are big and strong defensively on the wing. Huge plus against both the Knicks and Celtics.

These next few games may also exemplify why Cleveland will need to find ways to get bigger on the wing. It is scary to rely solely on Wade because there is very little size behind him.

 

[J_J]

I’ll be at MSG today

 

[Dr No]

This is a good opportunity for the Cavs. A strong performance in MSG will draw attention and announce that we might be seriously in the mix this year. And, regardless of outcome, I'm curious to see how our guys perform in the KA system under pressure. The 1st 3 games have been impressive, but they've been against lesser teams. I want to see if we play differently than last year when pressure is applied.

 

[Dr No]

The door to the #2 seed is wide open. Only 4 of the 15 Eastern Conference teams are over .500. Nine of them are below .500. It's very early, of course, but the Knicks are very vulnerable to injury to any of their starters while the Sixers and Bucks both have age and injury issues and the season is barely underway.

I know we aren't necessarily playing for seeding this year as much as we are playing to be at our best when the playoffs arrive. But the #2 seed would be awesome. To get a play-in winner in the first round and then host in the second (and likely avoiding Boston until the Conference Finals) would sure be a preferable path.

 

[2 For The Brew]

I know we aren't necessarily playing for seeding this year as much as we are playing to be at our best when the playoffs arrive. But the #2 seed would be awesome. To get a play-in winner in the first round and then host in the second (and likely avoiding Boston until the Conference Finals) would sure be a preferable path.

I think our depth gives us a huge advantage in the regular season. I wouldn’t concede anything at this point including the #1 seed. Of course that’s no guarantee of playoff success as we didn’t make the ECF with 66 wins or 61 wins and LeBron on the team.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Thanks for the write up but unless I missed it there was no reference to the Knicks losing Isaiah Hartenstein in the off season. That coupled with giving up Divincenzo means we’re seeing a very different team than last year’s edition.

Over the last year they lost Quickley, Hartenstein, Randle, RJ Barrett, Obi Toppin, and DiVincenzo. In return they got Anunoby, Bridges, Achiuwa, and Towns. Six out, four in.

I'd say their starting five got better but their depth took a big hit. The Knicks apparently gambled that by putting together one of the top three starting units in the league by sacrificing depth they can keep their top guys healthy and go further in the playoffs.

It's a big risk, IMO, because of the "bruising style" that Thibodeau likes to play. The Knicks are very thin, although getting Achiuwa and Robinson back will help. In last year's playoffs they had injuries to Brunson and Anunoby that finished them off.

Their starting five are going to have to play heavy minutes with a physical style of play, so we'll see how they hold up over 82 games.

The NBA is getting pretty darn physical. We saw that in the Cavs-Magic playoff series last year. Heck, they broke Jarrett Allen's rib. The Wagner brothers were throwing a lot of elbows around and body slamming their way to the rim.

Like KA said recently, "The NBA is a "through your chest" league now". That might benefit teams like the Cavs that are deep and have players who can play multiple positions like Mitchell, LeVert, Strus, Wade, and Mobley.

The Cavs are in a better position to survive injuries than teams that can't win if one key player like Giannis, Embiid, Jimmy Butler, or Brunson goes down.