2025 Minor League

Aleman looked strong for sure, but I'm wondering about Frias. Have they figured something out with him yet? Would they dare replace Junis with Frias?
 
CDAV45 said:
Aleman looked strong for sure, but I'm wondering about Frias. Have they figured something out with him yet? Would they dare replace Junis with Frias?
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With Stephan, Sewald, coming back then Aleman and Enright being back to healthy, i am doubting Frias ends up doing anything for us this season. He's likely one of those guys who ends up elsewhere in a swap deal... Who knows, he may end up being the guy we move for a rental...
 
CDAV45 said:
Aleman looked strong for sure, but I'm wondering about Frias. Have they figured something out with him yet? Would they dare replace Junis with Frias?
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Stats haven't shown an improvement in Frias. In last 6 innings of work in 4 games, he has allowed 9 hits and 4 ER with 5 ks and 3 walks.
 
You can ignore the facts all you want. You can color our situation however you want, but take the time to think about this...

Weve had Jose as our anchor at 3B since 2016.

Since then, our farm system has generally been ranked in the upper echelon nearly every year. And yet, how many of the other eight player positions have been adequately filled by our own prospects?

Two...Kwan and Bo.

We haven't had a legit RF, since Choo. We haven't had a decent home grown CF, since Grady. In spite of having more MIF prospects than you can count on your fingers, our MIF situation is unsettled at best. The only 1B we've had from within the system was Santana, and we've had to acquire him twice. We haven't developed our own DH.

Maybe you call two positions out of eight in nearly a decade a raging success. I call it an annual face plant.

Perhaps our FO can't find a trade they like, but other teams can.

Perhaps this next bunch of prospects will work out, but this forum was sure that the last bunch would work out...and the one before it..and the one before it.

Perhaps this team is built for next year, but last years team was built for this year, and the the 2023 team was built for 2024, and the 2022 team was built for 2023.

It is perpetual insanity.

But go ahead, hug all those prospects tightly. Don't let anything pry them out of your fingers, until they run out of options...and out of value.
 
CATS44 said:
You can ignore the facts all you want. You can color our situation however you want, but take the time to think about this...

Weve had Jose as our anchor at 3B since 2016.

Since then, our farm system has generally been ranked in the upper echelon nearly every year. And yet, how many of the other eight player positions have been adequately filled by our own prospects?

Two...Kwan and Bo.

We haven't had a legit RF, since Choo. We haven't had a decent home grown CF, since Grady. In spite of having more MIF prospects than you can count on your fingers, our MIF situation is unsettled at best. The only 1B we've had from within the system was Santana, and we've had to acquire him twice. We haven't developed our own DH.

Maybe you call two positions out of eight in nearly a decade a raging success. I call it an annual face plant.

Perhaps our FO can't find a trade they like, but other teams can.

Perhaps this next bunch of prospects will work out, but this forum was sure that the last bunch would work out...and the one before it..and the one before it.

Perhaps this team is built for next year, but last years team was built for this year, and the the 2023 team was built for 2024, and the 2022 team was built for 2023.

It is perpetual insanity.

But go ahead, hug all those prospects tightly. Don't let anything pry them out of your fingers, until they run out of options...and out of value.
Click to expand...

But we cant just trade prospects willy nilly and expect to stay competitive...

Also position wise we have flopped, but pitching wise... Bieber, Bibee, Williams, Smith, Herrin, Gaddis, Allen, Hentges... Are all guys we drafted... Enright, Walters, Aleman, Nikhazy, Espino are also guys we drafted...

We traded/acquired Stephan, Sabrowski, Cantillo, Ortiz, Cecconi... We seem to have fixed Allard...

We have done an amazing job with pitching and yes we havent been great with hitting...

We have DeLauter and Brito, who if healthy, have a plus bat and no one can deny that one... I feel like we have been unlucky more than anything else with position players...

Let's see what these guys do in the second half...
 
I find it ironic that we can praise JRam and in the next sentence suggest that the farm system doesn't produce. IT IS THE PRECISE THING THAT HAS KEPT THIS TEAM RELEVANT FOR SO MANY YEARS. It gave you JRam, Lindor, Kwan and Kipnis. It gave you Kluber, Bieber, Civale, Bibee, Williams, Gaddis, Hentges, Herrin and other pitchers. Hell, if we're going to make a trade maybe it should be for prospects because guys like Clase, Kluber, Cantillo, Naylor, Santana, Carrasco, Stephan, Sizemore, Brito, Ortiz, Cecconi and Manzardo to name a few that were acquired via trade and produced. Most of those made an immediate impact. Outside of Miller, what established ML player has been acquired recently that made a damn bit of difference? Thomas? Barlow? Sewald? There are more instances where guys like Barlow and Sewald should have not been acquired(by whatever means) than the successful trade for a good ML player.

Again, the answer to the problem isn't reducing minor league talent. It is actually the exact opposite. Load the damn system up until it is overflowing with talent and that's how a complete team will be assembled. I think they realize this and is exactly why JRam would have been dealt had he not signed an extension. It will be the reason Kwan is dealt if he doesn't sign. Clase could get traded too, but that is due to the quality depth of the BP and Smith being as or more effective.

Don't get me wrong, if there is a deal for an established player to be had and they can do it without damaging this franchise's future completely then by all means. The problem is that good, cost controlled ML players just aren't available very often and when they are the price is astronomical.
 
CDAV45 said:
I find it ironic that we can praise JRam and in the next sentence suggest that the farm system doesn't produce. IT IS THE PRECISE THING THAT HAS KEPT THIS TEAM RELEVANT FOR SO MANY YEARS. It gave you JRam, Lindor, Kwan and Kipnis. It gave you Kluber, Bieber, Civale, Bibee, Williams, Gaddis, Hentges, Herrin and other pitchers. Hell, if we're going to make a trade maybe it should be for prospects because guys like Clase, Kluber, Cantillo, Naylor, Santana, Carrasco, Stephan, Sizemore, Brito, Ortiz, Cecconi and Manzardo to name a few that were acquired via trade and produced. Most of those made an immediate impact. Outside of Miller, what established ML player has been acquired recently that made a damn bit of difference? Thomas? Barlow? Sewald? There are more instances where guys like Barlow and Sewald should have not been acquired(by whatever means) than the successful trade for a good ML player.

Again, the answer to the problem isn't reducing minor league talent. It is actually the exact opposite. Load the damn system up until it is overflowing with talent and that's how a complete team will be assembled. I think they realize this and is exactly why JRam would have been dealt had he not signed an extension. It will be the reason Kwan is dealt if he doesn't sign. Clase could get traded too, but that is due to the quality depth of the BP and Smith being as or more effective.

Don't get me wrong, if there is a deal for an established player to be had and they can do it without damaging this franchise's future completely then by all means. The problem is that good, cost controlled ML players just aren't available very often and when they are the price is astronomical.
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This should posted over and over....

...acquisition of a near ML Ready player (position or pitcher) is the way to go.. Send the guys who haven't shown they have the talent for guys who have the talent but haven't been given a chance to exhibit it..

Example of a current name that you can remember trade proposals being posted: Ivan Herrera with the Cardinals.. Now Ivan can't be touched without considering CDL/Chourio level talent... This is what you're getting at.. You get these unknown talented guys before they are known... Like Grady.. and Corey and many others.. The CleFo defines two or three guys who are untouchable.. and you willy nilly or otherwise trade whatever it takes to get them..
 
CATS will be CATS. In addition to bad 1st round draft picks, Cleveland FO would probably also admit to bad position coaching (esp hitting) over time. That maybe why we hit on more trades than internal. Yet, as CDAV says we shouldn't overlook the coaching where pitching has worked (where we are home grown), CATS is into trading ALL prospects. Remember, FO has already tried to tweak the hitting coaching in the minors the last 2-3 years or so (got Kwan's input) but results won't be known until DeLauter, Watson, Kayfus, Ingle, Genao, Churio.. come up now.

But, yeah, sell the farm vs fix the coaching.... It is not what came first the chicken or the egg. Its the coaching that either helps to develop the hitting or kills it (see Y Diaz x 2, Urshella, Bauers, Straw, ....) If some prospects thrive outside of Cleveland, we say they needed a new environment but maybe needed just new coaching.
 
Gson said:
This should posted over and over....

...acquisition of a near ML Ready player (position or pitcher) is the way to go.. Send the guys who haven't shown they have the talent for guys who have the talent but haven't been given a chance to exhibit it..

Example of a current name that you can remember trade proposals being posted: Ivan Herrera with the Cardinals.. Now Ivan can't be touched without considering CDL/Chourio level talent... This is what you're getting at.. You get these unknown talented guys before they are known... Like Grady.. and Corey and many others.. The CleFo defines two or three guys who are untouchable.. and you willy nilly or otherwise trade whatever it takes to get them..
Click to expand...

How many times do Prospect for Prospect trades happen (other than needing new environments)? And, why would a team trade if we have shit (they want our established players usually for prospects). You are not wrong ... but may there was a reason we didn't land Herrera.
 
Gson said:
This should posted over and over....

...acquisition of a near ML Ready player (position or pitcher) is the way to go.. Send the guys who haven't shown they have the talent for guys who have the talent but haven't been given a chance to exhibit it..

Example of a current name that you can remember trade proposals being posted: Ivan Herrera with the Cardinals.. Now Ivan can't be touched without considering CDL/Chourio level talent... This is what you're getting at.. You get these unknown talented guys before they are known... Like Grady.. and Corey and many others.. The CleFo defines two or three guys who are untouchable.. and you willy nilly or otherwise trade whatever it takes to get them..
Click to expand...
Herrera would be great, but would the Cardinals part with him? If so, how much? I do think they would part with Pages. He can hit and is improving defensively, but I honestly don't know if he'll ever cut it with the glove. If they think he can he could be a good target.
 
Petes999 said:
How many times do Prospect for Prospect trades happen (other than needing new environments)? And, why would a team trade if we have shit (they want our established players usually for prospects). You are not wrong ... but may there was a reason we didn't land Herrera.
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The unexploited market advantage remains unexploited for this reason.. CleFO has shown a propensity to find these and win with them...
 
I have never been into trading ALL the prospects. But when an org has SIXTEEN young shortstops, either on the roster, or decent to excellent prospects, not packaging any of them in a major trade is insane. Thats what we had a few years back. But according to Pete, not trading any of them was the proper thing to do.

Right now, we are loading up again with MIFs. We have Brito, Genao, Bazzana, two Rodriguez, and Francisco to go with what we already have in Cleveland. Pete says we shouldn't package any of them to upgrade the MLB club.

We have Manzardo, Kayfus, and Brito (,probably) at DH/1B. The first two bat LH, Brito switches. Pete says we shouldn't package Velazquez, another LH bat limited to 1B, to upgrade the roster.

Of course, according to Pete, none of these kids are probably not very highly valued, because every ranking system is always wrong.

So if none of them are any good, why do we constantly talk about them?
 
CATS44 said:
I have never been into trading ALL the prospects. But when an org has SIXTEEN young shortstops, either on the roster, or decent to excellent prospects, not packaging any of them in a major trade is insane. Thats what we had a few years back. But according to Pete, not trading any of them was the proper thing to do.

Right now, we are loading up again with MIFs. We have Brito, Genao, Bazzana, two Rodriguez, and Francisco to go with what we already have in Cleveland. Pete says we shouldn't package any of them to upgrade the MLB club.

We have Manzardo, Kayfus, and Brito (,probably) at DH/1B. The first two bat LH, Brito switches. Pete says we shouldn't package Velazquez, another LH bat limited to 1B, to upgrade the roster.

Of course, according to Pete, none of these kids are probably not very highly valued, because every ranking system is always wrong.

So if none of them are any good, why do we constantly talk about them?
Click to expand...

Umm...

We tried to make moves... It takes two to tango...
 
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