23 Offseason GM Thread

[Lee]

Anyone up date me without reading? Make any trades? Sign anyone>

 

[petes999]

Anyone up date me without reading? Make any trades? Sign anyone>

Everyone wants to trade for Murphy for Tena and others, can't understand why Arz didn't give Walker to us for Jones (instead of Vargas for Carver) and want to trade Plesac and non-top 5 pitching prospect for solid #3 over Quant for 2 year rental. And, then we sign a NRI catcher to set our expectations to more realistic levels.

Of course this is sarcasm... forgot to add in our magic bean trade chip. Same old stuff from last year ... where we crappedout before season and trade deadline, but this year will be different when our needs for pitching and starting catching (murphy) are getting closer to end.

 

[sportscoach]

Anyone up date me without reading? Make any trades? Sign anyone>

Cleveland is in the Murphy trade talk

OF Reynolds from Pittsburgh has asked for a trade.

SP DeGrom signed with Texas starting the market for SPs

Cleveland did sign a depth piece Catcher

Otherwise, no actual news...

Now, If you want to read...

Murphy, has been rumors towards Cleveland for awhile and I think most feel, the Guardians aren't going to meet the A's price and the A's aren't going to meet Cleveland's price. I feel the A's have to get a top SP prospect, so I feel like Williams is their main target in the Murphy deal...

Reynolds, Cleveland tried to get him in the past, so we are wondering if we should try to get him or get in a three team deal to benefit from the Reynolds trade...

DeGrom, most believe Texas overpaid for him, but other FA SPs will try to use his contract to negotiate, so that may have put guys like Bassitt out of Cleveland's price range...

Guardians Sign Meibrys Viloria To Minor League Deal

The Guardians have announced the signing of free agent catcher Meibrys Viloria to a non-roster Minor League deal with an …

www.mlbtraderumors.com

I see the catcher as more of the in case we need a 4th catcher rather than anything significant. Maile signed with the Reds, so he's out being in the catching mix...

if you want to know more, Rosario won't be moved (if he is) until after the top SS players are signed. Plesac won't be moved either until the SP market is set, but DeGrom signing started the dominoes for the that one...

 

[CDAV45]

We did move guys to the OF or from their original positions (I mean JRam didn't play 3B until after he made the bigs)... The weird part is they have hit on a lot of prospects via drafting and/or trade and because of that, they really didn't have to move guys positions as much. They acquired Straw, then guys like Kwan, Brennan etc actually developed. All our MIFs can play 2B/SS/3B... Naylor played some OF, Benson and Arias are adding other positions. Miller has been trying to add other positions... Tell me who on this current roster, outside of Bo Naylor, hasn't play 2-3 different positions since they been with the team? I think it's only OGonz, but he I believe has played some LF... Naylor has played 1B, LF/RF, Arias all INF and LF, etc... In my mind, Prospects need to know multiple positions and then as the opportunities open up they find themselves an utility role or an everyday role in one of them. They have been doing just that and Kwan took LF cause of his defensive play. JRam took 3B years ago cause of need and solid play...

If anything, it's not BS almost everyone has learned to play multiple positions... Gimenez was a SS not a 2B... He had less than 300 innings at 2B before he got into the bigs while 3000 at SS in the minors, is that not changing positions/learning another position?

Also I think more MIF would have hit the OF if Kwan, Brennan etc didn't produce... Players get moved to open spots, hence why Jones was in RF almost all of last season. OGonz took the position... They have been doing it, it's just the fact players have been producing at their positions they were drafted at for a change lol

My argument isn't that guys cannot play other positions because they can and it's beneficial when they do so effectively defensively and offensively. These light hitting MIFers that can "play anywhere" aren't going to get you to the promise land and it's a poor strategy. You want to see Miller at 1B some more or do you want to see them bring in a real RHH 1B that can mash? OGon is our RFer because he can hit the shit out of the ball and pretty much was our offense against Tampa. Would you rather see Freeman out there? The entire idea of drafting light hitting MIFers because they are good athletes and can move all over is stupid. It's about as smart as going into a UFC fight with the idea that you can win by slapping your opponent. It hasn't worked. It won't work. It will never work.

 

[sportscoach]

My argument isn't that guys cannot play other positions because they can and it's beneficial when they do so effectively defensively and offensively. These light hitting MIFers that can "play anywhere" aren't going to get you to the promise land and it's a poor strategy. You want to see Miller at 1B some more or do you want to see them bring in a real RHH 1B that can mash? OGon is our RFer because he can hit the shit out of the ball and pretty much was our offense against Tampa. Would you rather see Freeman out there? The entire idea of drafting light hitting MIFers because they are good athletes and can move all over is stupid. It's about as smart as going into a UFC fight with the idea that you can win by slapping your opponent. It hasn't worked. It won't work. It will never work.

It got us to the playoffs... lol

 

[CDAV45]

It got us to the playoffs... lol

It wasn't just that, that got us to the playoffs, but I think there is nothing but good news looking forward and I'll explain. This is the youngest team in MLB so power is still developing with some of these guys. We'll have a full season of OGon. I hope Tito has enough sense to put Brennan in CF when a RHP is on the mound. Bo and Will being in the lineup instead of Hedges and Straw will make a world of difference or it should anyway. I believe Giminez will have 20 HR power. I believe both Naylors have 20 HR power at a minimum and Josh should be healthier in 23. Arias looks to be the SS at this time. He's got a lot to prove, but he's got power so we'll see how it works out. I think they are going to add a RH bat or 2 as well. There are no MIFers that can answer this team's need and they are now looking outside the organization to fill that need(s).

I have to say that I'm curious what they intend to do about SS. If they deal Rosario(they should IMO) then it appears to be Arias' to lose unless they make a trade or a surprise signing, and we know there isn't going to be a signing. When it was rumored that Adames could be available I thought it would be worth kicking the tires, but he isn't getting moved now. Besides, Arias profiles a lot like him really.

 

[petes999]

So prediction time: how many moves do you see us making before the meetings wrap up (let's say by Thursday night as deals get done on the airport lounge)?

For me - 1 catcher in Rule 5 - probably Milas if he slips past a few teams. Other than that, nothing but a lot of prep work on a FA signing or trade/FA signing for power hitting RHB (for 1st/DH/OF).

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In my opinion, catcher market is out of control

Teams linked to Murphy & Contreras - Cardinals, Guardians, Rays, White Sox, Red Sox, Astros, Padres, Marlins, Giants -- we have had chances at the beginning of last season and trade deadline and balked at the price with just Hedges and Maile. Now, we have Naylor who doesn't require a 3-year commitment nor the assets (prospects or $$$s) to back him up. And, Cardinals, Astros and Red Sox are probably most desperate for the top 2 with us, Rays, Milwaukee (to pair with Carantini) and White Sox next (fighting over scraps)

Zuino - best of rest for price but injury concerns with injury issues who will wait for higher payday from a desperate team (overlooking injury issues) and Hedges.

I can see the need for a long-term catcher as Lavastida without a bat is not the guy (maybe backup). Looking at todays NRI, Lavastida doesn't have the arm. He was 30%+ before COVID in lower levels but now is 23% or less since 2021 return to play at each level. So go Rule 5 and find another option (and seek a trade if not on 26 man roster but worth keeping)

Pitching market -- Yes, we were after Mahle. Yet, as I said at the time, how quickly do they need to trade Plesac to make it all happen (got grief over it but later became the reason for Reds backing out). 3-team trades are harder to do and need slower time of January to let things play out before we get outbid.

And, Miami is trading pitchers but want MLB ready hitters - and Rosario and Palacios are not enough for Lopez nor Luzardo. Even Arias is not the headliner.

1B power hitter - you would assume this is easiest fix of the 3 but will require a price drop as we are not getting Bell at $10 million plus for 3 years. DH has been rotating for days off. Bell has had a career tOPS of 89 versus lefties - his lefty stats did improve in 2022 though. Mancini tOPS was 84 last year vs lefties 108 vs Righties and Myers is the best at 126 tOPS and should be cheap enough to split at-bats with Naylor. But, I assume they are waiting to see if Arias isn't you super utility/1B Chang role based on Rosario. And, I assume FO prefers a 2-year deal to see what happen with Noel (and prepare for our onslaught of 2024 Rule 5 pitchers). Drury is probably out of our price range and I assume a team like Seattle would be all over him (teams looking for 2B). Yet, it would be fun to watch reactions to the "Let's go Brandon" chants.

Finally, as SC said, Rosario is after the Big 4 get sorted out.

 

[CATS44]

The value of defense in RF will increase because of the new rules.

We need a corner bat who hits lefties well.

There is a plus defender in RF that hits lefties very well away from his home park...a career wRC+ of 139....123 last season in an injury hampering season after a nearly year long enforced lay off.

But he hit 13 HR and 18 doubles in only 346 ABs last season.

Defensively he has been elite in RF, although he has played in center more. In the equivalent of 74 games...half a season...he has 7 assists and 7 DRS as a RF.

He is under control for three more years and will get about $3.6 mil in arby...a big figure for his team.

His trade value is way down, and we have done a lot of talking with his team.

Ramon Laureano

 

[sportscoach]

The value of defense in RF will increase because of the new rules.

We need a corner bat who hits lefties well.

There is a plus defender in RF that hits lefties very well away from his home park...a career wRC+ of 139....123 last season in an injury hampering season after a nearly year long enforced lay off.

But he hit 13 HR and 18 doubles in only 346 ABs last season.

Defensively he has been elite in RF, although he has played in center more. In the equivalent of 74 games...half a season...he has 7 assists and 7 DRS as a RF.

He is under control for three more years and will get about $3.6 mil in arby...a big figure for his team.

His trade value is way down, and we have done a lot of talking with his team.

Ramon Laureano

A's aren't moving Laureano right now... His value is too low

 

[Gson]

Mets GM is painting himself into threshold hell... The Mets, if they continue.. will be paying a tax penalty of 90 cents on every dollar for just about any signing.. It's essential Steve Cohen and his GM Billy Eppler have some more acquisitions on their agenda.. but will need to pare their payroll number from where it is right now.. downward..

Here's a thought.. if the Mets were to trade an underwater contract or two but pay for it with a prospect instead of including partial payment of those bad contracts.. would that interest the CleFO??

Example..

Mets get Logan T Allen, James Karinchak and Myles Straw..
.... $ 35.3 MM in / $ 37.5 out
Guardians get Carlos Carrasco (one year, $ 14 MM), James McCann (with a clean bill of health; $ 12 MM per year for two years) and "pay" the Guardians for taking these two contracts by send Francisco Alvarez along with these two guys.. Thus, opening the door for a trade (either Plesac or Civale, perhaps to the Dodgers for Miguel Vargas?) to further strengthen the defense..

Will Brennan takes over in CF.. Carrasco takes over the # 4 or # 5 spot in the rotation.. and James McCann works with and mentors Bo Naylor and Francisco Alvarez to become the strongest trio of catching talent ever in the history of Cleveland..
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..and yes.. we already know that a deal like this is unlikely.. please make it a point to repeat that refrain ad nauseum...

 

[sportscoach]

Mets GM is painting himself into threshold hell... The Mets, if they continue.. will be paying a tax penalty of 90 cents on every dollar for just about any signing.. It's essential Steve Cohen and his GM Billy Eppler have some more acquisitions on their agenda.. but will need to pare their payroll number from where it is right now.. downward..

Here's a thought.. if the Mets were to trade an underwater contract or two but pay for it with a prospect instead of including partial payment of those bad contracts.. would that interest the CleFO??

Example..

Mets get Logan T Allen, James Karinchak and Myles Straw..
.... $ 35.3 MM in / $ 37.5 out
Guardians get Carlos Carrasco (one year, $ 14 MM), James McCann (with a clean bill of health; $ 12 MM per year for two years) and "pay" the Guardians for taking these two contracts by send Francisco Alvarez along with these two guys.. Thus, opening the door for a trade (either Plesac or Civale, perhaps to the Dodgers for Miguel Vargas?) to further strengthen the defense..

Will Brennan takes over in CF.. Carrasco takes over the # 4 or # 5 spot in the rotation.. and James McCann works with and mentors Bo Naylor and Francisco Alvarez to become the strongest trio of catching talent ever in the history of Cleveland..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..and yes.. we already know that a deal like this is unlikely.. please make it a point to repeat that refrain ad nauseum...

I don't see them using Alvarez to dump contract, but they could be looking to move contracts...

Plesac for Carrasco and Tidwell?

I think that actually serves both teams since Cleveland gets a stopgap for the Trio and we get another one to add to our prospect depth. Plesac shouldn't be a huge dropoff production wise so they save 10+ in cap...

 

[KluberSociety]

Guards trade Valera, Plesac, Halpin, and Tolentino to Miami for Pablo Lopez.

Who says no?

We get net -1 on our 40 man, which then allows us to sign a catcher. Marlins are weak in the OF including in the farm and could use Valera and Halpin. I also count an extra space on their 40 man. Plesac eats innings and could be a bit of a reclamation. Tolentino is just a throw in because he's from an area of surplus.

BTV has this as net even (38.7 to us and 38.9 to them) but I feel like some here would consider this a bridge too far. I wouldn't.

 

[CATS44]

Guards trade Valera, Plesac, Halpin, and Tolentino to Miami for Pablo Lopez.

Who says no?

We get net -1 on our 40 man, which then allows us to sign a catcher. Marlins are weak in the OF including in the farm and could use Valera and Halpin. I also count an extra space on their 40 man. Plesac eats innings and could be a bit of a reclamation. Tolentino is just a throw in because he's from an area of surplus.

BTV has this as net even (38.7 to us and 38.9 to them) but I feel like some here would consider this a bridge too far. I wouldn't.

Interesting, but I'm not sure either org would do it

Miami needs outfield upgrades NOW, while their pitching is intact and affordable. This doesn't do it.

On the other hand, giving up Valera, three years of Plesac, plus two lower level prospects for only two years of anything doesn't seem appealing on our part.

Lopez is obviously a present upgrade over Plesac, but teams trade contracts, and Plesacs third year of control has value. I'm not sure the difference in contract value justifies the loss of Valera, Halpin, and Tolentino.

 

[Gson]

I don't see them using Alvarez to dump contract, but they could be looking to move contracts...

Plesac for Carrasco and Tidwell?

I think that actually serves both teams since Cleveland gets a stopgap for the Trio and we get another one to add to our prospect depth. Plesac shouldn't be a huge dropoff production wise so they save 10+ in cap...

The Alvarez example was shooting for the most needed.. probably not, as you've stated.. but

The Plesac/Carrasco & Blade Tidwell purchase would actually be closer to $ 20 MM. The Mets will be two time offenders of the "Uncle Steve" tax so, every dollar over the line (and Carrasco's 14 MM count) would be nearly doubled.. Take away Plesac's cost and $ 20 MM isn't far off.. Additionally, the threshold has a way of limiting anything and everything a club can do..

McCann, with a clean bill of health, wouldn't be a bad choice to include in a salary avoidance strategy, either..

 

[Gson]

More and more it's looking like the price for Sean Murphy is remaining prohibitive..

Perhaps another tact might include inducing the A's to trade one of their other catchers (not named Langeliers...even though he would have been an incredible get at last year's deadline).. The Guardians will just have to make due with a FA/other acquisition (Zunino?.. Vazquez?).. and turn the reinforcement of the catching situation and pursuit of same to a deeper, less ready guy.

Concurrently, no one on the current 26 man should be considered for this deep catching prospect. In that case, the A's remain a potential trade partner.. Instead of Sean Murphy, perhaps the Guardians will inquire about Daniel Susac. He's a better backstop at the same time in his career as any of the other three catchers the A's have (Murphy, Soderstrom and Langeliers). Susac has a pretty good pedigree and has all the tools to be a double impact kind of player.. both behind the plate and with the tools of ignorance..

Maybe a deal like this could solve for the need for a LHRP as well as a future C:

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/trade-112935/

The deal fits the narrative about wanting ML ready guys for the A's while replacing what they've lost and allowing them to select who they like.. Thoughts?