23 Offseason GM Thread

[sportscoach]

@Gson @CDAV45

Another trade idea!

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Dodgers get
OF Nootbaar

Cleveland gets
OF Outman
SP Bedell

Cardinals get
SP Plesac
SP Pepiot
OF Pages
SP Frasso

Thoughts?

 

[CDAV45]

I hope you're right (about the "far superior"). I'm mainly going by eye test and the amount of reps he's getting at every position outside of SS. His defensive metrics weren't good in the limited amount of games but the sample size was crap so I'm not worried about that. He just doesn't appear to have the quickest side-to-side movement which is similar to Amed. He seems like the kind of player who would optimally be playing 3B, with his great arm. Also I think Amed should be a 3B so I'm sorry if I just don't see a whole lot of difference between them but I hope Arias proves me wrong there. So far count me unconvinced though.

Rocchio I just have what FG wrote, basically. I was under the impression that he was supposed to be the stronger defensive player so I see him a bit above Rosario but again we're talking about comparing these guys to MLB SS's which are the best fielders in the world so simply being good at defense doesn't get you that far and by that token Amed is actually pretty "good" at defense.

Gimenez to me is PROVEN to be an actually great defensive player, in a way that none of these other guys can probably hope to touch. Again hope I'm wrong here but I'm just not seeing any glowing reviews of their defense which would make me think they can touch his excellence with the glove.

TL;DR, with Gimenez in the infield, Amed and Arias are 3B, and Rocchio is a 2B, while Gimenez plays SS.

We're all entitled to our opinions so no need to make apologies for yours. You can go back and look at endless scouting reports on Arias and his defensive chops. I do think he is stronger to his glove side and can make fantastic plays deep into that hole with his incredible arm strength and accuracy. His range has never been an issue before, but he's a big kid and if he grows/fills out much more it might start to impede his range.

I have no faith in FB so I pay little attention to what they have to say. I get more information out of what they don't say. It's very telling. I don't think the relationship between FG and the Guardians' officials is a fluent one. Rocchio is a very good defensive SS. I don't know that he's great at any particular thing, but he's very good at everything. A very well rounded player and the only thing that will keep him from being a ML SS is one of the other ML SS in the system. Like I stated earlier, we'll be in good hands if/when any of Gimenez, Rocchio or Arias becomes our everyday SS.

 

[Gson]

@Gson @CDAV45

Another trade idea!

Cardinals & Dodgers & Guardians » Baseball Trade Values

At baseballtradevalues.com, baseball fans can propose trades using accurate values of over 2,300 players as if they’re the GM of their favorite baseball team.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

Dodgers get
OF Nootbaar

Cleveland gets
OF Outman
SP Bedell

Cardinals get
SP Plesac
SP Pepiot
OF Pages
SP Frasso

Thoughts?

this deal doesn't address Cleveland's current and future needs.. soft pass..

 

[KluberSociety]

I have no faith in FB so I pay little attention to what they have to say. I get more information out of what they don't say. It's very telling. I don't think the relationship between FG and the Guardians' officials is a fluent one. Rocchio is a very good defensive SS. I don't know that he's great at any particular thing, but he's very good at everything. A very well rounded player and the only thing that will keep him from being a ML SS is one of the other ML SS in the system. Like I stated earlier, we'll be in good hands if/when any of Gimenez, Rocchio or Arias becomes our everyday SS.

Supposedly they watched him play winter ball this year which is the most recent data we have apart from the few reps in ST so I'm inclined to put a little weight in what they say. Otherwise yes I'd agree that they miss on a ton, but sadly I think there's probably some element of truth to what they say here.

Edit: Supposedly the bigger problem was with his throwing which further indicates a 2B future if he's in the IF with Gimenez.

 

[Gson]

Jim Callis has posted an interesting article as a conjunction to each ML organization's Top 30's

Link: https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?tab=wm#inbox/FMfcgzGrcrwqLsDHmgrZdsQBTGsGqlrP

In that article, he lists what he call his Top Ten Sleepers that are due to climb in their top 30 lists.. or considered as prospects with some helium.... Names on this list dovetail nicely into the statement regarding the "..pre-emergence comment.." or a guy(s) who could have been obtained before their value rose.. The names of interest include:

Guardians:
Angel Genao.. a switch hitting SS who's still a teenager but plays a much more mature game.
Parker Messick.. the quintessential Control/Command guy the CleFO pitching development team teaches to throw both better and harder..

Others:
-Sam Basallo C from the Orioles system.. pretty solid defensive catcher w/ a strong bat
-Alexander Canario OF with the Cubs.. at least four and possibly five tool guy who can flat out swat..
-Josue De Paula.. another one of the hidden gems in the Dodgers' system. Thinks and looks like Mookie.. could be his twin in about three years..
Nick Frasson.. Currently being groomed as a starter.. but his repertoire says back of the pen / high leverage reliever/closer..

He and the other three on this list would all be pretty good prospects in the Guardians system... good indeed !!

 

[sportscoach]

Guardians & Yankees » Baseball Trade Values

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www.baseballtradevalues.com

@Gson @CDAV45

Cleveland gets
Util Cabrera
MIF Sweeney
C Gomez

Yankees get
SP Allen
MIF Freeman
OF Palacios

Aka it's the first idea... I am thinking Allen and Freeman for Cabrera plus prospect(s)...

 

[Gson]

Guardians & Yankees » Baseball Trade Values

At baseballtradevalues.com, baseball fans can propose trades using accurate values of over 2,300 players as if they’re the GM of their favorite baseball team.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

@Gson @CDAV45

Cleveland gets
Util Cabrera
MIF Sweeney
C Gomez

Yankees get
SP Allen
MIF Freeman
OF Palacios

Aka it's the first idea... I am thinking Allen and Freeman for Cabrera plus prospect(s)...

Hmm...

I like Cabrera.. a lot.. he's versatile and talented.. the kind of prospect/player you can plug into just about any hole other than catcher and he'd do, at least, a functional job.. He has a very good bat from both sides of the plate..

Sweeney is a no one.. middling anything.. nothing that says ML'er.. He's not fast.. he's doesn't have a great arm.. he doesn't have lateral quickness.. he doesn't track balls off the bat.. he doesn't charge balls well.. he swings hard (and misses a lot) in a vain attempt to make hard contact.. easy pass on him..

Gomez has one skill and one alone.. he can flat out catch a ball and unleash a throw to any base as well as anyone in any minor league system.. Other than that, he's nothing special.. Having a weapon is a good thing.. and Gomez has one.. but it's his only one.. any second weapon and he'd be worth more consideration.. he doesn't have it.. and won't develop it..

What I like most about this deal is giving Palacios a new uniform to wear that doesn't have a "Flying G" on the sleeve.. The two other guys, Logan and Freeman, are too valuable for the return being offered..

Pass on this deal..

 

[sportscoach]

Hmm...

I like Cabrera.. a lot.. he's versatile and talented.. the kind of prospect/player you can plug into just about any hole other than catcher and he'd do, at least, a functional job.. He has a very good bat from both sides of the plate..

Sweeney is a no one.. middling anything.. nothing that says ML'er.. He's not fast.. he's doesn't have a great arm.. he doesn't have lateral quickness.. he doesn't track balls off the bat.. he doesn't charge balls well.. he swings hard (and misses a lot) in a vain attempt to make hard contact.. easy pass on him..

Gomez has one skill and one alone.. he can flat out catch a ball and unleash a throw to any base as well as anyone in any minor league system.. Other than that, he's nothing special.. Having a weapon is a good thing.. and Gomez has one.. but it's his only one.. any second weapon and he'd be worth more consideration.. he doesn't have it.. and won't develop it..

What I like most about this deal is giving Palacios a new uniform to wear that doesn't have a "Flying G" on the sleeve.. The two other guys, Logan and Freeman, are too valuable for the return being offered..

Pass on this deal..

Who else would you have to get back with Cabrera to give the Yankees Freeman and Allen?

 

[Gson]

Who else would you have to get back with Cabrera to give the Yankees Freeman and Allen?

no one... a third team would need to be involved to get Spencer Jones as part of the return to the Guardians if both Freeman and Allen are departing..

Doing a quick work up:

Yankees get: 77.4 in / 77.7 out
Bryan Reynolds .............. 64.2
Guardians Comb B pick 2.4
Amed Rosario ................. 10.8

Pirates get: 65.3 in / 64.2 out
Jasson Dominguez ....... 29.9
Everson Pereira .............. 19.7
Logan Allen ................... 15.7

Guardians get: 28.1 in / 28.9 out
Spencer Jones ................ 16.8
Oswaldo Cabrera .......... 11.3

-The Yankees get a real SS to fill the gap before Volpe is ready.. the best ML OF'er they could have imagined and a comp pick that should give them another future trade piece. The NYY's also get to keep the # 1 prospect they have been more than a little reluctant to deal..

-The Pirates fill their coffers with Reynolds replacement, a very good starting pitching prospect and an OF'er that can slot into the Pirates rotation as soon as 2024..

-The Guardians will put Spencer Jones and Chase De Lauter together as the two youngest guys in their outfield group that they can add to Myles Straw, Bryan Brennan, Steve Kwan and Oscar Gonzalez.. at the appropriate time. This becomes a very deep and talented OF group for the next six years.. Cabrera contributes immediately as a switch hitter, so, no loss of counting stats in 2023....

 

[sportscoach]

no one... a third team would need to be involved to get Spencer Jones as part of the return to the Guardians if both Freeman and Allen are departing..

Then you are wanting to much and it's not going to ever happen. I doubt Jones is available outside of in a package for an All-Star type SP...

 

[Gson]

Then you are wanting to much and it's not going to ever happen. I doubt Jones is available outside of in a package for an All-Star type SP...

read above.. duh

 

[sportscoach]

read above.. duh

You didn't have that done when I replied...

And outside of Cleveland giving up a comp pick (can we give up a current prospect instead?), that is something I think Cleveland could live with... I'd rather have a mix of Cabrera, Arias and Freeman since it gives us roster flexibility.

Yankees get help now... and Pirates get added talent...

One problem with this deal... Pirates want a top ranked 50ish prospect that's an SP. They don't get this in that deal. They will decline since Allen isn't the talent they want....

 

[Gson]

try: edit

Allen isn't talented enough.. I can see this is another one of your moving goal posts arguments.. smh..

 

[sportscoach]

try: edit

Allen isn't talented enough.. I can see this is another one of your moving goal posts arguments.. smh..

I'm not moving the posts....

Pirates have stated that they have to get a top SP prospect for Reynolds... Allen doesn't fit that description and no one in the deal does... Yankees don't have one of those, but Cleveland does, though Cleveland isn't willing to part with them for Jones or Cabrera...

 

[Gson]

I'm not moving the posts....

Pirates have stated that they have to get a top SP prospect for Reynolds... Allen doesn't fit that description and no one in the deal does... Yankees don't have one of those, but Cleveland does, though Cleveland isn't willing to part with them for Jones or Cabrera...

more BS....

.. TINSTAAPP...