sportscoach
RD's Guardians PR Man!
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Am I the only one that feels like we will move the depth on the 40 man for a LHRP?
Never said that once. I have said that the problem I have with Straw is the role he is in. He's not a desired starter on a playoff team, but I have no problem with Myles as a 4th OFer. Do you think Brennan is a better/more valuable hitter than Straw? Do you think Arias is a better defensive SS than Rosario? Be careful because you're pining for the better defensive CF to start.So they should have dumped Straw and Rosario for moldy PB&J sandwiches and went with straight rookies for CF and 2B/SS? Traded Bieber plus Plesac and expected the return SP (likely Pepiot) and Bibee to take their spots?
Edit: I know you didn't say that, but you have been making moves that say that...
Never said that once. I have said that the problem I have with Straw is the role he is in. He's not a desired starter on a playoff team, but I have no problem with Myles as a 4th OFer. Do you think Brennan is a better/more valuable hitter than Straw? Do you think Arias is a better defensive SS than Rosario? Be careful because you're pining for the better defensive CF to start.
I don't care about the return for Rosario, I just want him out of the way. Doing so makes us better. If they can get a good LHRP for him then all the merrier.
C'mon dude, try to follow along a little closer. I clearly stated that neither Pepiot or Bibee would be replacing Bieber, that would be McKenzie's role as he was right with Bieber last year and is on the way up while Bieber has peaked and is possibly on the downside. Pepiot and Bibee both have the ability to outperform Quantrill, Civale and Plesac. Had more been done this offseason then I might agree with you about not trading Bieber. The reality suggest otherwise as I don't see this team anywhere close to being a WS contender.
There are always "under the radar" guys.. It's always a matter of degree as to who qualifies..@Tondo @Gson
You guys may know more than me when it comes to this... Is there any pitchers on a team with a deep bullpen or a non-contending team on paper that have guys on the bubble that we may be able to get for the likes of a package around a guy like Tena?
Tondo reason why I am including you is cause you also know guys that are at MLB ready who may not make a roster but could be a boon to ours. Aka I would like to find maybe another guy like a Herrin type (maybe a bit younger) from the left side who has minor league options. Doesn't have to be left handed, just someone though who can fit into our current mix but keep the roster flexible.
Also @Gson heard/seen any under the radar guys like Effross and Mantiply possibly? Both guys essentially came out of nowhere as older pitchers in a sense.
I have a hunch we are going to swap out the end of the roster before we break camp and I was seeing if their was a arm elsewhere that would be better than Kelly (who may make the roster). Plus we need at least one spot open for a catcher so swapping Tena for a RP, with upside/MLB control would fill in things nicely. Plus I think they want to have another fielder like a Quinn maybe make the roster...
I told you to be careful and you did it anyway. If the benefit in CF is having the superior defender then the same applies for SS. I’d argue that the difference defensively between Arias and Rosario is greater than that of Straw and Brennan. We don’t even need to discuss offense at this point. If your logic applies then it applies.I was being a bit a sarcastic person there lol Cleveland got to the playoffs with the crew you are always complaining about.
Brennan = better hitter on paper... Straw = best defensive OF
Francona likes to slow get guys into roles as rookies normally. Straw is the starter at the beginning of the year and if he hits will keep it. Brennan will get ABs and get chances to prove himself. When it comes to 24, if Brennan shows the club he can play plus OF and hit like Brantley, then they have to find a spot for him. For right now, for better or for worse, Straw is just too good of a CF defensively not to have him starting. He has a short leash in 23 and that's a fact and Brennan is gunning for his job on paper. Straw knows it and he knows he's gotta prove it. Let's see how he recovers from 22 and plays in 23. You will have to deal with Straw being the regular starter until Juneish... If he hasn't fixed his issues at the plate then, he's going to be benched. Wait until then...
Arias = better upside and potential... Rosario = proven player and a team leader
On paper, if this was a simulation, then in no way would Rosario even be on this club. Heck he may have even been non-tendered/cut last season. That isn't reality and it's a fact Cleveland felt keeping Rosario would give the team more wins/WAR than trading/replacing him. They were open to moving him, but weren't going to trade him for something unless it benefited them either by filling in a need on the current roster or in the organization in general. That deal never came before spring and honestly since it didn't they are going to keep who they know instead of playing the unknown. Arias is a better player on paper, but is still an unknown and I feel like they would rather have him ramp up his responsibilities rather than throw him into it all at once. Now come near the deadline... If Rosario starts slumping bad (Aka .220-.240 with .300 BABIP in laste June/early July) he is likely gone like what happened with Uribe when JRam finally got his chance. As long as Rosario is hitting and hustling, it's his spot for 23. He can lose it though so his position isn't permanent if he's not getting those hits.
If you trade Bieber and the best SP you have to replace him on paper is Pepiot, then you essentially replaced Bieber and Pepiot... You need 5 starters and losing an Ace while having another Ace is all good and dandy, but you need at least 3 SPs who are #2 or higher most years to win a WS on paper. We would go from having two #1s and three #4s to having one #1 plus three #4s and no proven to be even a number 5 in 23. You definitely are going backwards on paper big time and have to have multiple guys step up...
Our best SP talent is coming and on paper, they will be monsters going forward, but it's impossible to count on them in 23. If anything you have to project them as a negative WAR if we see them.
So we were a rain out away/a HR away from getting to the ALCS and we upgraded the team on paper, and we aren't a contender.. Hell the Phillies barely got there and won it all. You are a contender as long as you get in and win. Best teams don't always win... Tell me what happens if we had a 100% healthy JRam and Gimenez last October?
You my friend are too big of a pessimistic at the moment. They will make a move at the trade deadline if there is issues. If Zunino isn't working, they will replace him... If Bell isn't working, they will give his ABs to someone else. Antonetti hasn't been afraid to make moves and they have room in the budget to go get a contract if need be.
I told you to be careful and you did it anyway. If the benefit in CF is having the superior defender then the same applies for SS. I’d argue that the difference defensively between Arias and Rosario is greater than that of Straw and Brennan. We don’t even need to discuss offense at this point. If your logic applies then it applies.
I’ve also told you time and again that last season’s success had as much to do with the Twins and White Sox injuries and underperformances than our own performance. That’s pretty obvious when you look at last season objectively. So I’m not a pessimist. I’m a realist. I don’t want to rely on that every damn season.
This comes down to the same thing that had me irked the last couple of seasons. They’re half-assing it again. Choose a path and commit to it fully. You say you want to win now then get the players to do it. You want to bring up your own(my preference) then that’s fine too, but it changes how they should do things. Maybe they tried to put a better team on the field and failed. After all it takes 2 to tango, but when that didn’t happen then they should have changed course. I don’t see them trading their top minor league talent to bring in a short term solution to anything. Our farm system is in a different state than when we traded for Miller.
It’s not impossible to rely on the most talented SP prospects we’ve seen in a very long time. I do think it’s impossible to extend Bieber. It’s not that I desire to trade him. The issue is bigger than Shane Bieber and the overall, long term health of this organization is more important to me than what Shane might be able to provide for a single season. You don’t have to agree with that, but it is the truth as I see it. Not only will waiting to trade him see his value lessen accordingly, but the loss of leverage will be just as if not more damning. There are a couple of recent examples of that. Should he sign an extension then that changes things and my thoughts toward them.
I can’t help but find the irony in the fact that you don’t think they can rely on rookies while simultaneously talking about how they won the division last season after debuting the most players in MLB. I’ve said it before and I’ll repeat myself. I think our actual “window” starts in 2024. I just hope the luck we experienced in 23 doesn’t change their plan for long term success because I’m a fan of it. Compile more young talent than you need and let them sort themselves out. Unless they somehow are able to start carrying $200M+ payrolls then that is the best way go IMO.
Window starts now and if they didn't feel that way, they wouldn't have signed Bell...
I really want to see Arias play SS just out of curiosity. My initial impressions are "like Amed, but sloppier". Clearly others like Fangraphs see more in his defense which also seems at odds with how the organization intends on using him. Count me a big skeptic though that he will be a huge improvement over Amed defensively.
McKenzie replaces Bieber , but then who replaces McKenzie? Your arguement just doesn't cut it for me.Never said that once. I have said that the problem I have with Straw is the role he is in. He's not a desired starter on a playoff team, but I have no problem with Myles as a 4th OFer. Do you think Brennan is a better/more valuable hitter than Straw? Do you think Arias is a better defensive SS than Rosario? Be careful because you're pining for the better defensive CF to start.
I don't care about the return for Rosario, I just want him out of the way. Doing so makes us better. If they can get a good LHRP for him then all the merrier.
C'mon dude, try to follow along a little closer. I clearly stated that neither Pepiot or Bibee would be replacing Bieber, that would be McKenzie's role as he was right with Bieber last year and is on the way up while Bieber has peaked and is possibly on the downside. Pepiot and Bibee both have the ability to outperform Quantrill, Civale and Plesac. Had more been done this offseason then I might agree with you about not trading Bieber. The reality suggest otherwise as I don't see this team anywhere close to being a WS contender.
I wouldn't trade Tena for a roster bubble RP
That's where you depend on the one of the other guys, part of the acquisition or the young talent to step in. My argument(which is really just an opinion) doesn't have to cut it for you, but that doesn't make it unjustified.McKenzie replaces Bieber , but then who replaces McKenzie? Your arguement just doesn't cut it for me.