24 Off-Season GM Thread

[sportscoach]

Orioles & Guardians: Baseball Trade Values

Imagine you’re the GM of your favorite team. Review values of all major and minor baseball players. Use our trade simulator, figure out a deal, and debate trades with fellow baseball fanatics.

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Marlins & Guardians: Baseball Trade Values

Imagine you’re the GM of your favorite team. Review values of all major and minor baseball players. Use our trade simulator, figure out a deal, and debate trades with fellow baseball fanatics.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

I made two deals...

1st would be Bieber to the Orioles for Norby and OF Haskins

2nd would be Rocchio plus Straw to the Marlins for Cabrera, OF Avisail Garcia, a prospect (I had Alderman, but this could be a PTBNL type) and Cash (that covers half of Gracia's remaining deal).

Why Cleveland does this...

Bieber is being replaced by Cabrera, so our rotation stays strong...

Straw is replaced by Haskins... So we have a strong 4th RH OF regardless...

Then we add Norby, who, on paper, could be a strong RF in due time...

We would also get a mid tier prospect... Alderman or someone like that from the Marlins...

Now the gamble... Garcia two seasons ago, hit 29 HRs... he's due 12 million this season, 12 next season and a buyout of 5 million in 26... Marlins would pay for part of the contract and/or Cleveland would acquire another prospect in the deal instead of cash... He wasn't healthy last year, and that's that, but he adds a RH bat with MLB experience and if he flops, Norby, Noel and Johnathan Rodriguez are all in the mix for his spot... If he has a strong rebound season he could easily be dealt next off season...

Thoughts? @Gson @CDAV45 @petes999

@Tondo, which prospects would you want in that PTBNL if this deal went down?

 

[CDAV45]

Mountcastle is a horrible OF... Don't argue with that fact since he is a bad OF... He is a plus 1B... We would have have 3 plus 1B and 2 negative OFs... If you want to put Kwan in CF, Mountcastle in LF and Brennan/Florial in RF with Laureano and Straw on the bench then so be it... That OF will give up runs since Kwan doesn't have the range you want in CF especially to cover Mountcastle... This defensive alignment will give up a bunch of runs...

The runs given up would likely be marginal. Great defenders don't save many more runs when compared to guys that make the routine play consistently. Myles Straw has lost many more games with his inability to hit rather than winning them with his excellent defense. The same could be said for every OFer Cleveland played last season.

Mountcastle's bat makes this team better in spite of his poor OF defense. Let him and Naylor share LF/DH duties. On the day that one of them isn't in the lineup then let Manzardo DH.

 

[CDAV45]

Orioles & Guardians: Baseball Trade Values

Imagine you’re the GM of your favorite team. Review values of all major and minor baseball players. Use our trade simulator, figure out a deal, and debate trades with fellow baseball fanatics.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

Marlins & Guardians: Baseball Trade Values

Imagine you’re the GM of your favorite team. Review values of all major and minor baseball players. Use our trade simulator, figure out a deal, and debate trades with fellow baseball fanatics.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

I made two deals...

1st would be Bieber to the Orioles for Norby and OF Haskins

2nd would be Rocchio plus Straw to the Marlins for Cabrera, OF Avisail Garcia, a prospect (I had Alderman, but this could be a PTBNL type) and Cash (that covers half of Gracia's remaining deal).

Why Cleveland does this...

Bieber is being replaced by Cabrera, so our rotation stays strong...

Straw is replaced by Haskins... So we have a strong 4th RH OF regardless...

Then we add Norby, who, on paper, could be a strong RF in due time...

We would also get a mid tier prospect... Alderman or someone like that from the Marlins...

Now the gamble... Garcia two seasons ago, hit 29 HRs... he's due 12 million this season, 12 next season and a buyout of 5 million in 26... Marlins would pay for part of the contract and/or Cleveland would acquire another prospect in the deal instead of cash... He wasn't healthy last year, and that's that, but he adds a RH bat with MLB experience and if he flops, Norby, Noel and Johnathan Rodriguez are all in the mix for his spot... If he has a strong rebound season he could easily be dealt next off season...

Thoughts? @Gson @CDAV45 @petes999

@Tondo, which prospects would you want in that PTBNL if this deal went down?

I commented on BTV, but I'll do it again here. I have little interest in Norby, Haskins or Garcia. If we're getting a sure fire power hitting corner OFer that's fine, but I don't want to block opportunities for guys like Florial, Rodriguez, DeLauter, Valera or Brito. The OF is already a clusterfuck as it is.

Instead of giving up Rocchio to get Garcia why don't they just sign Soler? I'd much rather have him and I'm not certain I'd even do that if the opportunity presented itself. I will say that I like the idea of getting Cabrera.

We already have a strong 4th RH OF in Laureano. He's the only OFer at this time that I like in his role.

 

[Gson]

I commented on BTV, but I'll do it again here. I have little interest in Norby, Haskins or Garcia. If we're getting a sure fire power hitting corner OFer that's fine, but I don't want to block opportunities for guys like Florial, Rodriguez, DeLauter, Valera or Brito. The OF is already a clusterfuck as it is.

Instead of giving up Rocchio to get Garcia why don't they just sign Soler? I'd much rather have him and I'm not certain I'd even do that if the opportunity presented itself. I will say that I like the idea of getting Cabrera.

We already have a strong 4th RH OF in Laureano. He's the only OFer at this time that I like in his role.

in 2023, Mountcastle hit .338/.398/1.053 against LHP's.. You go into the dictionary and look up "Lefty Masher" and the book has Ryan Mountcastle's Picture there.. Put that kind of thump against a LHP, and teams won't be sending their cadre of rookie and journeyman LHP's to face the Guardians..

His defense is adequate..no more.. that's not why he's being suggested in trade..

 

[sportscoach]

I commented on BTV, but I'll do it again here. I have little interest in Norby, Haskins or Garcia. If we're getting a sure fire power hitting corner OFer that's fine, but I don't want to block opportunities for guys like Florial, Rodriguez, DeLauter, Valera or Brito. The OF is already a clusterfuck as it is.

Instead of giving up Rocchio to get Garcia why don't they just sign Soler? I'd much rather have him and I'm not certain I'd even do that if the opportunity presented itself. I will say that I like the idea of getting Cabrera.

We already have a strong 4th RH OF in Laureano. He's the only OFer at this time that I like in his role.

Haskins is a plus RH defensive OF like Straw is but he has more power plus isn't on the 40 man roster yet... So that creates a way better roster in 24 that way...

Norby actually put up very good numbers and isn't on the 40 man either...

Both guys actually create roster spaces right now...

The Marlins trade was about getting Cabrera more than anything else... Plus getting a veteran OF who needs a fresh start and plus getting another prospect or two to add to the organization...

It would be Bieber, Straw, Rocchio out... Norby, Haskins, Cabrera, Garcia plus another prospect or two from the Marlins... I feel like we have a better potential roster in the end for 24...

Laureano is out after 24... Haskins takes his place... I personally have Garcia out after 24... Then you would have a bunch of guys trying to get the last roster spot that Garcia left open.

I like this, but of course I made it and I think it would work out just fine...

 

[AngryOldMan]

SC,

For these trades, I don’t think we are
1) Trading Bieber for discount 5-7 btv … think they are waiting to deadline and squeeze someone dry

2) your 9.7 w Norby and Haskins is a good start but would like a pitcher vs Haskins. We both noted Haskins could have been had for 100k in rule 5 and we took DDLS. Rather we take a lotto pitcher or two.

3) We are loading up on these trades on OF, but we are too packed this year w straw and Laureano. And, then we have DeLauter, Martinez, Halpin,…. We don’t need a lot ….maybe just 1, even w straw trade as even DDLS is shagging (in OF) as much as Lee.

4) I wouldn’t trade Freeman in your earlier trade. one, we would be selling low. But, with trio of Rocchio, Arias and Freeman, it’s hard to trade one till we find our SS … I am always looking for 2+ prospects to fill hole (one makes it one fails). Freeman is not everyday SS and Rocchio is better traded if Arias wins (before he loses value like Freeman). We need ST battle to see how this plays out before looking for two lower level prospects. If Rocchio wins SS, then trade Freeman leaving Arias as super utility. If Arias wins, trade Rocchio whose value sb greater than Freeman.

 

[sportscoach]

SC,

For these trades, I don’t think we are
1) Trading Bieber for discount 5-7 btv … think they are waiting to deadline and squeeze someone dry

2) your 9.7 w Norby and Haskins is a good start but would like a pitcher vs Haskins. We both noted Haskins could have been had for 100k in rule 5 and we took DDLS. Rather we take a lotto pitcher or two.

3) We are loading up on these trades on OF, but we are too packed this year w straw and Laureano. And, then we have DeLauter, Martinez, Halpin,…. We don’t need a lot ….maybe just 1, even w straw trade as even DDLS is shagging (in OF) as much as Lee.

4) I wouldn’t trade Freeman in your earlier trade. one, we would be selling low. But, with trio of Rocchio, Arias and Freeman, it’s hard to trade one till we find our SS … I am always looking for 2+ prospects to fill hole (one makes it one fails). Freeman is not everyday SS and Rocchio is better traded if Arias wins (before he loses value like Freeman). We need ST battle to see how this plays out before looking for two lower level prospects. If Rocchio wins SS, then trade Freeman leaving Arias as super utility. If Arias wins, trade Rocchio whose value sb greater than Freeman.

I like your responses since you at least don't name call and give legit thoughts so thanks!

Orioles don't have the SP talent that I honestly like, but they have a ton of hitters... Norby is a blocked player in the orioles system so he is a guy, they won't be as hard to get if they get a SP in return. Also we could always try to see if we could get Norby, Haskins and someone like Pham or De Leon added?

Sincerely I have Haskins and Straw kind of rated the same... Both plus defense, but Haskins actually can hit a HR, and you aren't wrong we could have gotten Haskins but with Straw and Laureano on the roster, he wouldn't have even cracked it... Hence why I was picking him up after we traded Straw in a sense and gave him a chance to make this roster and/or added him next season. Laureano and Straw wouldn't be on the roster in 25, so the RH would fall to Haskins as the 4th guy/Defensive OF...

Norby can play 2B/LF/RF, at least on paper, and he had 60 extra base hits with about a 20ish SO rate in a full season of AAA. I think he would be the hitting target in an Orioles deal personally...

Ps. I accidentally posted this midway! So I am fixing it!

When it comes to getting the OFs, I am gambling a bit on getting a guy like Garcia since he hasn't produced in two seasons, but I feel like he could bounce back and add some pop from the right side that we need... Plus the OF after this deal would be Kwan, Florial/Brennan, Garcia then Laureano... Whoever losing from the Brennan/Florial competition in CF will get sent down and if that means Florial is DFA then that's fine... Hedges, Fry, Freeman, DDLS... bench spots in a sense... Manzardo is also in the mix...

Lineup
LF Kwan
3B JRam
1B/DH Naylor
RF Garcia
1B/DH Manzardo
2B Gimenez
SS Arias
C Naylor
CF Florial/Brennan/Laureano

If Garcia rebounds to his 21 numbers, that wouldn't be a bad lineup and with Cabrera taking Biebers rotation spot... We would keep the same SP depth...

Now I don't blame you for saying we should wait to move Rocchio... I just think IF we can get a better 24 lineup plus get Biebers immediate replacement at the same time, I don't mind moving Rocchio... It's a big IF, but I could gamble on it and it's not like we still couldn't get another prospect or two with the Marlins deal...

All in all, we add Bieber's replacement, add a veteran RF bat, then add 3ish prospects all likely in our top 30 and one in our top 10 in Norby... I think we win in the end...

 

[CDAV45]

Haskins is a plus RH defensive OF like Straw is but he has more power plus isn't on the 40 man roster yet... So that creates a way better roster in 24 that way...

Norby actually put up very good numbers and isn't on the 40 man either...

Both guys actually create roster spaces right now...

The Marlins trade was about getting Cabrera more than anything else... Plus getting a veteran OF who needs a fresh start and plus getting another prospect or two to add to the organization...

It would be Bieber, Straw, Rocchio out... Norby, Haskins, Cabrera, Garcia plus another prospect or two from the Marlins... I feel like we have a better potential roster in the end for 24...

Laureano is out after 24... Haskins takes his place... I personally have Garcia out after 24... Then you would have a bunch of guys trying to get the last roster spot that Garcia left open.

I like this, but of course I made it and I think it would work out just fine...

I like the idea of Cabrera and even Norby, but how are you fitting him in? Who goes? It just seems to me that these type of moves require 2 others to happen in coordination. It's not just your deals either, it's mine as well. I'm open to trades, but they need to be for high end talent or just see what we have through.

 

[sportscoach]

I like the idea of Cabrera and even Norby, but how are you fitting him in? Who goes? It just seems to me that these type of moves require 2 others to happen in coordination. It's not just your deals either, it's mine as well. I'm open to trades, but they need to be for high end talent or just see what we have through.

First deal is Bieber for Norby plus some that creates the Cabrera spot... Now when it comes to Norby, it's hard to say...

I have it setup in 25, that both Laureano and Garcia are dealt/no longer on the roster... Then we would have a glutton of talented guys trying to take the OF spots they opened up...

So my 25 competition... LF is Kwan, CF is Brennan/Florial winner then RF and 4th OF is up for grabs... Haskins likely take the 4th OF spot... Then you would have Norby, DeLauter etc vying for the RF job...

I would hope by then we would have our OF setup properly and with the extra talent, trading for another player to finish off the roster for the world series run...

 

[AngryOldMan]

So my 25 competition... LF is Kwan, CF is Brennan/Florial winner then RF and 4th OF is up for grabs... Haskins likely take the 4th OF spot... Then you would have Norby, DeLauter etc vying for the RF job...

For me, only reason to trade Clase is to get massive upgrade in OF … top-50 type hitter and pitcher. part of this year is to see if our 100-200 type prospects can pull a Kwan before DeLauter is ready. That means DDLS, Valera, Halpin, Noel and Martinez and even Freeman/Arias but only as a super utility 5th guy. Didnt want Straw/Laureano crap nor a 32, almost 33, yr old, washed up DH in Garcia (per analytics, this is his decline phase) when we could have just signed Soler at 9 months younger and just $1 million more for no trade capital. Why keep Garcia in RF for 2 yrs when we aren’t going to compete this yr and DeL is ready next yr?

 

[Gson]

For me, only reason to trade Clase is to get massive upgrade in OF … top-50 type hitter and pitcher. part of this year is to see if our 100-200 type prospects can pull a Kwan before DeLauter is ready. That means DDLS, Valera, Halpin, Noel and Martinez and even Freeman/Arias but only as a super utility 5th guy. Didnt want Straw/Laureano crap nor a 32, almost 33, yr old, washed up DH in Garcia (per analytics, this is his decline phase) when we could have just signed Soler at 9 months younger and just $1 million more for no trade capital. Why keep Garcia in RF for 2 yrs when we aren’t going to compete this yr and DeL is ready next yr?

the deal presented (Clase/Straw for Mount/Cow/Norby) eliminates the glove only CF'er we have and adds a 55/60/50 hit group of OF'ers (that can play a little 1B and 2B).. No pitchers are coming back as hitters that can play the OF and are RH'd are the priority. The addition of Avisail to any deal only to be traded as soon as you can, keeping straw and the costs associated.. just kicks the Guardians' chances of competing later in 2024 and into 2025 right square in the balls. smh..

 

[Gson]

Fansided seems to follow the RCF lead...

https://fansided.com/posts/mlb-rumo...ouldn-t-turn-down-01hpj4qb2hga?utm_source=RSS

All three of these deals would be worthy of consideration, imho.. and none of them have any problem with stifling Kyle Manzardo for anything and any reason.. imagine that??????

 

[CDAV45]

First deal is Bieber for Norby plus some that creates the Cabrera spot... Now when it comes to Norby, it's hard to say...

I have it setup in 25, that both Laureano and Garcia are dealt/no longer on the roster... Then we would have a glutton of talented guys trying to take the OF spots they opened up...

So my 25 competition... LF is Kwan, CF is Brennan/Florial winner then RF and 4th OF is up for grabs... Haskins likely take the 4th OF spot... Then you would have Norby, DeLauter etc vying for the RF job...

I would hope by then we would have our OF setup properly and with the extra talent, trading for another player to finish off the roster for the world series run...

Again, I like the idea of Cabrera and Norby, but acquiring Garcia is a deal killer and you're not going to be able to trade him because nobody wants him. Whoever owns that contract will have to eat the large majority of it and even then he has declined so much that he literally has no on field value.

It's too early to even determine what the OF might need in full. Is Rodriguez going to translate? Is Valera going to show he's healthy and ready? Will Florial reach his potential? Will DeLauter continue as he has and be an option at some point? Unless Arias falls flat on his face and they decide to move Gimenez to SS then they'll need to find a spot for Brito because he's arguably the best hitter in the system. What happens if Noel cuts down his K rate, takes a few more walks and makes contact more frequently? So unless you're bringing in a proven, high quality bat to the OF then I'm guessing things will be as they are right now to start the season.

 

[CDAV45]

Fansided seems to follow the RCF lead...

https://fansided.com/posts/mlb-rumo...ouldn-t-turn-down-01hpj4qb2hga?utm_source=RSS

All three of these deals would be worthy of consideration, imho.. and none of them have any problem with stifling Kyle Manzardo for anything and any reason.. imagine that??????

The Phillies' deal is a laugher and the other 2 are short IMO. We don't need to add Rushing at the cost of Clase. I like Ryan better than Stone, but I'm demanding Sheehan. You'd be buying Morel after a successful small sample and attaching Brown to him is still not enough for me anyway. This is just my opinion and you know what they say about those.

 

[Gson]

The Phillies' deal is a laugher and the other 2 are short IMO. We don't need to add Rushing at the cost of Clase. I like Ryan better than Stone, but I'm demanding Sheehan. You'd be buying Morel after a successful small sample and attaching Brown to him is still not enough for me anyway. This is just my opinion and you know what they say about those.

The deals are presented as "incomplete".. only as starting points.. Morel and Brown for Clase is a clear underpayment.. With the addition of Cade Horton (to Brown and Morel) would seal a deal like this from the Guardians' perspective, the cubs would decline.. as an example..

Fix what's wrong.. & find the "yes".. knowing, sometimes.. there is no yes.. but not always..