25 GM Thread

[sportscoach]

Alright peeps, the season has started!!!

 

[sportscoach]

Starting off the season with a trade idea!

Brewers & Guardians: Baseball Trade Values

Imagine you’re the GM of your favorite team. Review values of all major and minor baseball players. Use our trade simulator, figure out a deal, and debate trades with fellow baseball fanatics.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

Brewers get
SP Joey Cantillo

Guardians get
SP Bishop Letson
Util Caleb Durbin

It definitely doesn't help us now in the bullpen... But i feel Messick has jumped Cantillo and Durbin is a shorter copy of Freeman in a way, but walks a lot more... Letson was at low A last season but seems to scream Guardians type of pitcher... Brewers and the Guardians Draft and develop fairly similarly so i wouldn't be surprised if Cleveland liked him...

Thoughts? @Tondo @Gson @Petes999

 

[sportscoach]

Also...

I really do believe this FO and some others did inquire about Eguy Rosario and I'd be surprised if someone didn't put in a claim...

Now the question is, what exactly is his cost?

 

[Gson]

Starting off the season with a trade idea!

Brewers & Guardians: Baseball Trade Values

Imagine you’re the GM of your favorite team. Review values of all major and minor baseball players. Use our trade simulator, figure out a deal, and debate trades with fellow baseball fanatics.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

Brewers get
SP Joey Cantillo

Guardians get
SP Bishop Letson
Util Caleb Durbin

It definitely doesn't help us now in the bullpen... But i feel Messick has jumped Cantillo and Durbin is a shorter copy of Freeman in a way, but walks a lot more... Letson was at low A last season but seems to scream Guardians type of pitcher... Brewers and the Guardians Draft and develop fairly similarly so i wouldn't be surprised if Cleveland liked him...

Thoughts? @Tondo @Gson @Petes999

cantillo's upside vastly surpasses either one of these guys.. soft pass on the deal..

Guys in the Brewer system to target:
-Jeferson Quero Catcher, extraordinary skills.. very expensive / to the point of prohibitive
-Jesus Made: a SS & what Francisco Lindor looked like at age 17
-Cooper Pratt: a SS & a prototypical Milwaukee "wall banger" type w/o the swing and miss..
-Misiorowski: What we all hoped Justin Campbell would become (and still may)..

Caleb is a pipsqueak the Yankees gave up on.. he'll slap the ball all over the yard..
Bishop Letson is a ways away, but, has more than some native ability, especially
with a mid 90's fastball that gets to the plate or onto batters a LOT quicker due
to Letson's extension/down the hill release point..

 

[sportscoach]

cantillo's upside vastly surpasses either one of these guys.. soft pass on the deal..

Guys in the Brewer system to target:
-Jeferson Quero Catcher, extraordinary skills.. very expensive / to the point of prohibitive
-Jesus Made: a SS & what Francisco Lindor looked like at age 17
-Cooper Pratt: a SS & a prototypical Milwaukee "wall banger" type w/o the swing and miss..
-Misiorowski: What we all hoped Justin Campbell would become (and still may)..

Caleb is a pipsqueak the Yankees gave up on.. he'll slap the ball all over the yard..
Bishop Letson is a ways away, but, has more than some native ability, especially
with a mid 90's fastball that gets to the plate or onto batters a LOT quicker due
to Letson's extension/down the hill release point..

I don't think Cantillo will get any of those 5 in a deal... We would have to give up a lot more...

So instead I was looking at adding a MIF talent that's at/near MLB ready to replace Freeman as the utility man at the big league club and a guy who give us a long term SP since Messick immediately replaces Cantillo on the depth chart in a sense...

Plus Durbin has his options, so it leaves us with roster flexibility that way...

 

[Gson]

I don't think Cantillo will get any of those 5 in a deal... We would have to give up a lot more...

So instead I was looking at adding a MIF talent that's at/near MLB ready to replace Freeman as the utility man at the big league club and a guy who give us a long term SP since Messick immediately replaces Cantillo on the depth chart in a sense...

Plus Durbin has his options, so it leaves us with roster flexibility that way...

then give up a lot more...

We have a MIF talent that is ML ready..

Messick has one ST where he's shown ML ability.. perhaps you might want to let those 20 starts go by before looking into space in Cooperstown????

Durbin is a slappy batsman that does a lot of little things.. none exceptionally well.. IOW..he has no weapon... Pass on Durbin..

 

[sportscoach]

then give up a lot more...

We have a MIF talent that is ML ready..

Messick has one ST where he's shown ML ability.. perhaps you might want to let those 20 starts go by before looking into space in Cooperstown????

Durbin is a slappy batsman that does a lot of little things.. none exceptionally well.. IOW..he has no weapon... Pass on Durbin..

You are looking at talent only... You aren't looking at current fits...

We need a utility guy... Durbins bat fits a guy who can just come in off the bench or play irregularly since he's contact plus batters eye. He is a solid fit in that bench role...

He had more BBs than SOs at AAA... He can steal 30+ in a season... I watched the Brewers in spring training... The dude is a baseball player... Now, does he have a ton of upside, no... But he's almost perfect for the last spot on the bench type...

I want him to get the last bench spot...

Now, I decided to pair him with Letson because Durbin isn't worth Cantillo by himself for sure plus I wanted a guy who screams Guardians but I didn't want someone that needs to be rule 5 protected soon...

You want to stagger the prospects a bit as well...

We aren't getting anyone in the Brewers top 10 prospects for Cantillo, so I opted to go with two solid prospects instead... One needed now, aka Durbin and one that we can develop into a solid player aka Letson...

 

[Petes999]

Starting off the season with a trade idea!

Brewers & Guardians: Baseball Trade Values

Imagine you’re the GM of your favorite team. Review values of all major and minor baseball players. Use our trade simulator, figure out a deal, and debate trades with fellow baseball fanatics.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

Brewers get
SP Joey Cantillo

Guardians get
SP Bishop Letson
Util Caleb Durbin

It definitely doesn't help us now in the bullpen... But i feel Messick has jumped Cantillo and Durbin is a shorter copy of Freeman in a way, but walks a lot more... Letson was at low A last season but seems to scream Guardians type of pitcher... Brewers and the Guardians Draft and develop fairly similarly so i wouldn't be surprised if Cleveland liked him...

Thoughts? @Tondo @Gson @Petes999

Close but I am not a fan of 2-4-1 trades. I rather add value and get 1 of the higher upside guys.

As for Durbin, who is going to take a back seat for playing time? Martinez, Brito, Tolentino, Wilson???? You want him to have the last bench spot but not willing for Martinez to grab it? Just seems that mlbpipe saying "but he profiles best as a utilityman that can help virtually everywhere" seems to indicate that he will be blocked by the guys we got around Arias, Martinez, Schneemann. And, I don't know how much of a SS he is (critical for what we need in utility with Brito and Bazzana not able to slide over). I much rather have the upside of Cantillo as we will need starters this year as Bieber and Means are far from guarantee no matter what we hope for. And, I know, it will be his last option, same with Cecconi and Allen (if optioned). But, give up valuable pitching for a 13th bench guy over Martinez (as 13th guy wilts on the bench and thus you woudn't want Martinez there)????

Letson sounds intriguing for a lower level trade discussion but not for Cantillo. Both are "a potential mid-rotation starter in Milwaukee down the line." Yet, who in A+ ball will get bumped (but as you said we got to see how things actually fit). Right now LC is projected TugBoat, Hartle, Kennedy, Humphries, DeLucia, Gomez and Richardson. We added depth to our starters and even Campbell may need a spot towards the end of the year.

 

[Gson]

You are looking at talent only... You aren't looking at current fits...

We need a utility guy... Durbins bat fits a guy who can just come in off the bench or play irregularly since he's contact plus batters eye. He is a solid fit in that bench role...

He had more BBs than SOs at AAA... He can steal 30+ in a season... I watched the Brewers in spring training... The dude is a baseball player... Now, does he have a ton of upside, no... But he's almost perfect for the last spot on the bench type...

I want him to get the last bench spot...

Now, I decided to pair him with Letson because Durbin isn't worth Cantillo by himself for sure plus I wanted a guy who screams Guardians but I didn't want someone that needs to be rule 5 protected soon...

You want to stagger the prospects a bit as well...

We aren't getting anyone in the Brewers top 10 prospects for Cantillo, so I opted to go with two solid prospects instead... One needed now, aka Durbin and one that we can develop into a solid player aka Letson...

Fits matter less than talent.. Talent will out.. Don't be like the Browns.. get a guy with talent to play & succeed at the highest level.. and trade him away for two that don't.. Cantillo has a chance to be a LOT like Bieber.. his velo is increasing.. his strike zone command is getting better.. He is that rare commodity: A guy who has a chance to be a major league starting pitcher.. all within the next two years..

Not a utility guy who fixes nothing.. would be going to his third team in less than 2 years.. no power.. and no specific spot to play defensively.. If this what "fits" CleFO will pass.. happily..

Letson has some ability... in three or more years.. ability might turn into him becoming a ML pitcher.. Cantillo is almost aleady there. So a might and fit for a ML SP is your proposed deal.. Like I said.. soft pass..

W/R to a deal with the Brewers.. the guys I mentioned.. remain the targets.. even WHEN it means more going from the Cleveland minor league system..

 

[sportscoach]

Close but I am not a fan of 2-4-1 trades. I rather add value and get 1 of the higher upside guys.

As for Durbin, who is going to take a back seat for playing time? Martinez, Brito, Tolentino, Wilson???? You want him to have the last bench spot but not willing for Martinez to grab it? Just seems that mlbpipe saying "but he profiles best as a utilityman that can help virtually everywhere" seems to indicate that he will be blocked by the guys we got around Arias, Martinez, Schneemann. And, I don't know how much of a SS he is (critical for what we need in utility with Brito and Bazzana not able to slide over). I much rather have the upside of Cantillo as we will need starters this year as Bieber and Means are far from guarantee no matter what we hope for. And, I know, it will be his last option, same with Cecconi and Allen (if optioned). But, give up valuable pitching for a 13th bench guy over Martinez (as 13th guy wilts on the bench and thus you woudn't want Martinez there)????

Letson sounds intriguing for a lower level trade discussion but not for Cantillo. Both are "a potential mid-rotation starter in Milwaukee down the line." Yet, who in A+ ball will get bumped (but as you said we got to see how things actually fit). Right now LC is projected TugBoat, Hartle, Kennedy, Humphries, DeLucia, Gomez and Richardson. We added depth to our starters and even Campbell may need a spot towards the end of the year.

Alright, here's my opinion why I want Durbin over Martinez in that last spot right now...

One, Durbin in a high floor type... There isn't much room to get better from where he is at now... He's closer to Clement than Freeman in that sense... I like guys like him in the last spot because of the inconsistency of ABs. He's going to get as many pinch runs as starts this season in that role, plus he is a couple years older than Martinez...

Now, why Martinez doesn't have the role in my mind is because he has more upside and needs the ABs to truly get better. He can't get that in a role as the 13th guy. He needs everyday ABs to develop, plus next season with Thomas not under contract, there will be an OF spot for him, so I'd rather him focus on OF than INF since his open spot is in the OF long term... so far... He's been playing OF at AAA...

When it comes to the rest... If they felt Wilson was an big leaguer, he would be in that role already... Brito is a hitter than a fielder and I don't think Tolentino will be a big leaguer...

Now when it comes to defense. I've only seen him play 2B... He looked pretty solid at 2B and I don't doubt he can fill in at SS, though I am thinking he is more of the gets to every routine play type

He's got 1200+ innings at 2B, 500+ at 3B and 300+ at SS with a few innings at LF and CF but all the innings in the OF came last season/this off season so he likely can play CF is needed...

He fits a guy i like at the end of the bench... Good speed, more BBs than SOs, can be thrown at most positions etc...

Now, the part were we lose Cantillo... I just don't see Cantillo ready right now... I think he needs another year in the minors plus I also think guys are passing him up at the same time...

Brewers need guys for next season not this season so this would be the perfect place for him, in my mind... Letson just gives us a long term guy, to fit in with the others we have... Its not always a bad thing to have too many SPs in the lower levels...

Now, what do we do in the mean time about SP depth...

I just feel like we have SP depth... I feel like people are underestimating some of the guys we have like Webb...

 

[sportscoach]

Fits matter less than talent.. Talent will out.. Don't be like the Browns.. get a guy with talent to play & succeed at the highest level.. and trade him away for two that don't.. Cantillo has a chance to be a LOT like Bieber.. his velo is increasing.. his strike zone command is getting better.. He is that rare commodity: A guy who has a chance to be a major league starting pitcher.. all within the next two years..

Not a utility guy who fixes nothing.. would be going to his third team in less than 2 years.. no power.. and no specific spot to play defensively.. If this what "fits" CleFO will pass.. happily..

Letson has some ability... in three or more years.. ability might turn into him becoming a ML pitcher.. Cantillo is almost aleady there. So a might and fit for a ML SP is your proposed deal.. Like I said.. soft pass..

W/R to a deal with the Brewers.. the guys I mentioned.. remain the targets.. even WHEN it means more going from the Cleveland minor league system..

We are already a really deep farm system, plus it's unlikely the Brewers even think about taking offers of prospects for prospects of anyone in their top 10... If anything i see them trying to do a 3 for 1 type of deal with their prospects and getting a proven MLB guy with some team control...

If anything i see them going hard after a 3B come this trade deadline...

Actually if anything you gave me a new idea, that I just have to figure how to swing hmm...

 

[Gson]

We are already a really deep farm system, plus it's unlikely the Brewers even think about taking offers of prospects for prospects of anyone in their top 10... If anything i see them trying to do a 3 for 1 type of deal with their prospects and getting a proven MLB guy with some team control...

If anything i see them going hard after a 3B come this trade deadline...

Actually if anything you gave me a new idea, that I just have to figure how to swing hmm...

Q: what position does Cooper Pratt play?.. or will play best?..

uh huh..

 

[sportscoach]

Cardinals & Brewers & Guardians: Baseball Trade Values

Imagine you’re the GM of your favorite team. Review values of all major and minor baseball players. Use our trade simulator, figure out a deal, and debate trades with fellow baseball fanatics.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

Okay that idea isn't fleshed out, so don't kill me just yet...

The main premise is...

Brewers get Arenado, Cantillo and cash...

Cleveland gets Matz, I put Durbin and Letson

Cardinals get prospect(s)...

Aka this gives the Brewers everything they need... We get a veteran stop gap SP/long reliever, our 13th man plus a solid prospect...

It's just the premise of an idea, but I know none of the top Brewers prospects will be available for Cantillo...

 

[sportscoach]

Q: what position does Cooper Pratt play?.. or will play best?..

uh huh..

They need a 3B now... not years from now...

 

[Petes999]

When it comes to the rest... If they felt Wilson was an big leaguer, he would be in that role already... Brito is a hitter than a fielder and I don't think Tolentino will be a big leaguer...

My thoughts ....

1) If you got a guy doing 200-300 PAs vs 6000s PA for the typical team (ours was 2nd lowest last year and 5927 though), that is about 4-5% of total PAs. At the end of the day, it maybe 1 or 2 Wins at most for .005 change in BA/OBP/OPS for .100 difference vs a sucky 13th man or Durbin at his .287/.396/.471/.867 that he got at AAA (so even lower at MLB). I see a Cantillo this year, even if he stays in the pen vs most likely being stretched in AAA, as having he same if not a bigger impact.

2) Martinez did 581 PA in AAA and MLB in last 2 years. He did his 540 in AA as well. Durbin has less than 400 PA at AAA, after 540 in AA. How much more time does Martinez need in AAA for him to be ready? Brito has 686 PA in AAA .... but why not 600 more this year, because if you trade Cantillo for a 13th guy in Durbin, then neither will be called up otherwise - if not for a lengthy injury or Arias hitting below Mandoza line.

3) I don't care if Cleveland is playing games with Brito with timing till May. He is coming up the first 1/2 of this year to play 2nd (then slide him to DH or LF or somewhere if he succeeds with the bat) to make room for Bazzana. Thus, Arias (being shifted between 2nd and 3rd - and SS in ST, is the main super-utility with Schneemann as 13th guy (perfect role for him without needing to ship Cantillo).

4) I don't know if the FO has even settled on the 13th man internally. I mentioned the odds of needing someone for the 1st 9 games for that 13th spot was low due to the 3 off-days in first 9 games (so no days off really other than a couple in this 5 day stretch). Even yesterday with Ramirez possibly injured, they didn't have anyone in a hotel, in the morning, just in case he wasn't even good to go for PH duty. Things will probably change in a few weeks.

5) I know it's only 3 games, but all of Brito, Martinez and Wilson did well (.417/.429/.667/1.096, .357/.357..571/.913 and .500/.500/.800/1.300 respectively) while Brennan sucked ass at .071/.071/.071/1.142. Wilson can still be easily added if you want Martinez or Brito to get 300 PA in AAA to finish off their development. Yes, they traded Freeman for a hope that Jones is more like 23 version (with high BABip), yet they were looking out a month or so and did not see a space for Freeman (due to Brito and/or Martinez). Those kids will get ABs even if it means Schneemann sits vs RHP in that 13th spot.