25 GM Thread

[sportscoach]

Guardians & Rockies: Baseball Trade Values

Imagine you’re the GM of your favorite team. Review values of all major and minor baseball players. Use our trade simulator, figure out a deal, and debate trades with fellow baseball fanatics.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

I didnt make this one...

Cleveland gets

RP Bird
OF Beck

Rockies get

1B/RF Noel
2B Francisca
OF Rosario
SP Doughty

I feel like this may be a bit much... But I am not against finding a way to get Beck...

 

[Criznit]

Alright! I have two deals in place... @Gson @Petes999 @CDAV45

This one is the block buster deal...

Guardians & Red Sox: Baseball Trade Values

Imagine you’re the GM of your favorite team. Review values of all major and minor baseball players. Use our trade simulator, figure out a deal, and debate trades with fellow baseball fanatics.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

Cleveland gets
RF Abreu
OF Refsnyder
RP Chapman

Boston gets
1B/COF CJ Kayfus
SP Messick
SP Doughty
SS Francisca
OF JRod

It's a lot to give up, but we get everything we need for the playoff run...

The other deal...

Cleveland gets
RP Chapman
OF Refsnyder

Boston gets
OF JRod
Two RP prospects not Aleman, Walters or Enright

I can see that second deal since we get a lefty killer and a veteran LHRP with a ton of playoff experience.

First deal…. Are you crazy?

Second deal… Red Sox say no.

 

[Petes999]

Guardians & Rockies: Baseball Trade Values

Imagine you’re the GM of your favorite team. Review values of all major and minor baseball players. Use our trade simulator, figure out a deal, and debate trades with fellow baseball fanatics.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

I didnt make this one...

Cleveland gets

RP Bird
OF Beck

Rockies get

1B/RF Noel
2B Francisca
OF Rosario
SP Doughty

I feel like this may be a bit much... But I am not against finding a way to get Beck...

Way too much, especially if they think Bird is the center piece. A reliever who is completely unnecessary going forward. Is he the 5th or 6th reliever next year (or even this year), especially as he is overperforming this year?

I think we also need to wait for Bieber news. We are a good team, over performing based on some stats. Having him back would have solidify where we are. Yet, with 6 teams in 1.5 games for 3 wild card slots, need every win that a Bieber, Bibee, Williams, Ortiz, Cantillo/Cecconi would give us. Allen isn't that. And, how will the offense be once Ramirez and Santana regress back to their mean vs 2 top-5 hitters for month of May?

 

[sportscoach]

First deal…. Are you crazy?

Second deal… Red Sox say no.

I mean... no comment... lol

I mean via BTV it was rejected cause I didn't pay enough for Abreu... Yeah they have him listed that high... I doubt anything less would even get him cause they don't have to trade him...

Back to the drawing board!

 

[Petes999]

I mean... no comment... lol

I mean via BTV it was rejected cause I didn't pay enough for Abreu... Yeah they have him listed that high... I doubt anything less would even get him cause they don't have to trade him...

Back to the drawing board!

And that is why there are thousands of trade proposals but only 50 or so trades a year.

We ain’t paying deadline prices for LF, RF or a RP when those can be filled within.

 

[Gson]

hmmm.....

IDK what "deadline prices" are.. assume it's more than other prices?? $ 1.45 for a $ 1.00 item? Of course.. the question becomes.. if "..those can be filled within" is possible.. why hasn't it happened?

MLB generates fan interest by providing avenues to fans to provide input.. Most is completely ignored, scorned & dismissed.. Some of that input results in comments such as "...are you crazy..." Naturally, both a state of craziness and good intentions are possible.. however misguided.. The interest in making the club better remains.. we'll see...

 

[Petes999]

hmmm.....

IDK what "deadline prices" are.. assume it's more than other prices?? $ 1.45 for a $ 1.00 item? Of course.. the question becomes.. if "..those can be filled within" is possible.. why hasn't it happened?

MLB generates fan interest by providing avenues to fans to provide input.. Most is completely ignored, scorned & dismissed.. Some of that input results in comments such as "...are you crazy..." Naturally, both a state of craziness and good intentions are possible.. however misguided.. The interest in making the club better remains.. we'll see...

I am trying to say we aren't trading a top 10 prospect in Doughty for a reliever that won't break top-4... get in 7th, 8th or 9th innings. I said Chapman is fine but Boston would get much more that JRod and filler. Heck, he is ageless wonder having as good of a year if not better than 23 where KC got Ragans plus for him. We won't pay the deadline price as other teams in need back end or Loogy help will bid up price (the 16-18 buyers for 12 WC slots w 8-10 sellers) when we got solid 4 relievers plus Stephan plus hopefully Walters in Sept AND we can slide Cecconi in pen for playoffs (depending on Means, Bieber, Cantillo being 4th spot starter/opener).

Internally, they GOT to decide if Arias/Rocchio are going to be bandaid till Genao. Or, if they are desperate enough in 2 months to try Schneemann at SS and if healthy, Brito at 2nd. Yet, as we discussed, only 1 maybe 2 targets at SS (weak market -- more buyers than sellers means premium).

They will wait at catcher for either Huff or Ingle to relieve wear and tear on Bo. Noted yesterday, his OPS is dropping but corresponds to more playing time last week. He is 1 for 26 since May 26th (Dodgers), but Hedges has only started May 28th (when we wanted PHer for 2 bases loaded) in that time.

Now, why haven't we fixed CF/RF? If they want to trade for CFer, I am down for it. Yet, look at what they say about Thomas. He would probably need to be on 60-day for them to see a need. Plus, even though we lose him next year, they are counting on Fry to then step up.

I also think they are high on Halpin, and some would say in more ways than 1. With all Guardians guys saying DeLauter for RF soon, it's more than hope but FO leaks. But 5-34 in AAA isn't going to get call right now.

For me if they can find a cheap 1yr Jay Bruce type that's fine. If Bieber is healthy, and we make run in July, find SS and add CF to create 2016 vibes. Otherwise, we are stuck in no man's land. Good but not good enough. But, market is thin for what we need SS/CF thus what's left in trade market is an improvment but not at cost FO usually pays with internal prospects almost ready.

 

[Gson]

I am trying to say we aren't trading a top 10 prospect in Doughty for a reliever that won't break top-4... get in 7th, 8th or 9th innings. I said Chapman is fine but Boston would get much more that JRod and filler. Heck, he is ageless wonder having as good of a year if not better than 23 where KC got Ragans plus for him. We won't pay the deadline price as other teams in need back end or Loogy help will bid up price (the 16-18 buyers for 12 WC slots w 8-10 sellers) when we got solid 4 relievers plus Stephan plus hopefully Walters in Sept AND we can slide Cecconi in pen for playoffs (depending on Means, Bieber, Cantillo being 4th spot starter/opener).

Internally, they GOT to decide if Arias/Rocchio are going to be bandaid till Genao. Or, if they are desperate enough in 2 months to try Schneemann at SS and if healthy, Brito at 2nd. Yet, as we discussed, only 1 maybe 2 targets at SS (weak market -- more buyers than sellers means premium).

They will wait at catcher for either Huff or Ingle to relieve wear and tear on Bo. Noted yesterday, his OPS is dropping but corresponds to more playing time last week. He is 1 for 26 since May 26th (Dodgers), but Hedges has only started May 28th (when we wanted PHer for 2 bases loaded) in that time.

Now, why haven't we fixed CF/RF? If they want to trade for CFer, I am down for it. Yet, look at what they say about Thomas. He would probably need to be on 60-day for them to see a need. Plus, even though we lose him next year, they are counting on Fry to then step up.

I also think they are high on Halpin, and some would say in more ways than 1. With all Guardians guys saying DeLauter for RF soon, it's more than hope but FO leaks. But 5-34 in AAA isn't going to get call right now.

For me if they can find a cheap 1yr Jay Bruce type that's fine. If Bieber is healthy, and we make run in July, find SS and add CF to create 2016 vibes. Otherwise, we are stuck in no man's land. Good but not good enough. But, market is thin for what we need SS/CF thus what's left in trade market is an improvment but not at cost FO usually pays with internal prospects almost ready.

...a few thoughts...

I doubt the inclusion of "..Doughty for a "reliever.." is anything more than a mucked up trade profile that satisfied the numerical equation for the BTV site.. The Rockies have limited interest in a HS arm as they almost exclusively abstain from drafting or having prep arms in their system.. Call it an over reaction to having HS arms that result in injuries, sadness and despair... If you look at the Rox top prospects.. not a single HS arm to be seen.. for good reason..

The deal as presented was to acquire an OF'er and this deal does that.. then gets lost in the numbers.. simplifying it to just Beck and just Francisca (plus one) would make this more palatable for everyone involved.. (and who cares about the BTV algorithm / equation)..

Petey Halpin is a good kid.. he's very Brennan-esque.. with about the same ceiling.. perhaps slightly better or worse.. IDK at this point.. Being high on him is likely.. or might be pure bolicks.. He's never struck me as a "can't hold him back" kind of prospect..

Waiting on Huff / Ingle for "hopeful" relief for Bo <== we'll agree to disagree on this.. over the last two years.. the top dozen "prospect" catchers who are with clubs are 4 drafted by the prospects' current club, 4 International Free Agent signing by their current club and 4 traded to their current club.. IOW, waiting isn't the only means to an end.. Current ML catchers who are starting for their clubs are more skewed than this.. So, like an OF, there are ways to satisfy this positional need without drafting and waiting..

At least they tried: Cozart and Ralphy are two backstop draftees that will never see a day behind home plate of a ML game unless they buy a ticket. This is the problem.. and it isn't going to be resolved anytime soon with the current staff and attitude toward catching.. It's almost a CRIME to have a manager that was a back up catcher.. They all think they can get their backup guy to improve enough to be passable as a ML'er.... I don't see it.. and haven't seen it since the CleFO TRADED for their last real catcher.. the current 1B coach.

Thoughts?

 

[Petes999]

...a few thoughts...

I doubt the inclusion of "..Doughty for a "reliever.." is anything more than a mucked up trade profile that satisfied the numerical equation for the BTV site.. The Rockies have limited interest in a HS arm as they almost exclusively abstain from drafting or having prep arms in their system.. Call it an over reaction to having HS arms that result in injuries, sadness and despair... If you look at the Rox top prospects.. not a single HS arm to be seen.. for good reason..

The deal as presented was to acquire an OF'er and this deal does that.. then gets lost in the numbers.. simplifying it to just Beck and just Francisca (plus one) would make this more palatable for everyone involved.. (and who cares about the BTV algorithm / equation)..

Petey Halpin is a good kid.. he's very Brennan-esque.. with about the same ceiling.. perhaps slightly better or worse.. IDK at this point.. Being high on him is likely.. or might be pure bolicks.. He's never struck me as a "can't hold him back" kind of prospect..

Waiting on Huff / Ingle for "hopeful" relief for Bo <== we'll agree to disagree on this.. over the last two years.. the top dozen "prospect" catchers who are with clubs are 4 drafted by the prospects' current club, 4 International Free Agent signing by their current club and 4 traded to their current club.. IOW, waiting isn't the only means to an end.. Current ML catchers who are starting for their clubs are more skewed than this.. So, like an OF, there are ways to satisfy this positional need without drafting and waiting..

At least they tried: Cozart and Ralphy are two backstop draftees that will never see a day behind home plate of a ML game unless they buy a ticket. This is the problem.. and it isn't going to be resolved anytime soon with the current staff and attitude toward catching.. It's almost a CRIME to have a manager that was a back up catcher.. They all think they can get their backup guy to improve enough to be passable as a ML'er.... I don't see it.. and haven't seen it since the CleFO TRADED for their last real catcher.. the current 1B coach.

Thoughts?

Yes, Doughty for reliever was in reference to a few SC postings on RP+RF/LFer. And, yes it is just to get up to the BTV values. Yet, I just saying in general, they ain't changing their MO on giving away top prospects when we have a few prospects about ready for RF/LF. Okay, they gave up Clemmens for Thomas but with all intent to stick him in CF and hoped it worked.

Yet, Beck isn't a CF IMHO (great speed but has consistently ranked low on range like Lane). And, have you seen his splits home/away. Not the splits you want away from Colorado. But, I am talking in general as others were looking at that Boston OF Abreu. Again, I am cool solving CF long-term as Halpin projects as you said 4th OF (yet FO rostered him after bad year at AA - doesn't scream low expectations) and Churio is LC maybe for the year after injury. But, too many options for LF/RF that we need to weed through with FO focus on youngsters.

And, you know me by now. I usually try to look at it from FO perspective. We had no CF and SP was pathetic last year so they swung for the fences being in first. Now, we are in WC hunt that can change by July. What is need of fixing (from exterior) is SS and CF. So, if they buy, it is for where they have seen enough of the prospects (CF/SS) OR they see a 2016 WS opportunity. I just don't see them grabbing a catcher now when they haven't done it since (as you said) Sandy (really Gomes maybe).

 

[Gson]

Yes, Doughty for reliever was in reference to a few SC postings on RP+RF/LFer. And, yes it is just to get up to the BTV values. Yet, I just saying in general, they ain't changing their MO on giving away top prospects when we have a few prospects about ready for RF/LF. Okay, they gave up Clemmens for Thomas but with all intent to stick him in CF and hoped it worked.

Yet, Beck isn't a CF IMHO (great speed but has consistently ranked low on range like Lane). And, have you seen his splits home/away. Not the splits you want away from Colorado. But, I am talking in general as others were looking at that Boston OF Abreu. Again, I am cool solving CF long-term as Halpin projects as you said 4th OF (yet FO rostered him after bad year at AA - doesn't scream low expectations) and Churio is LC maybe for the year after injury. But, too many options for LF/RF that we need to weed through with FO focus on youngsters.

And, you know me by now. I usually try to look at it from FO perspective. We had no CF and SP was pathetic last year so they swung for the fences being in first. Now, we are in WC hunt that can change by July. What is need of fixing (from exterior) is SS and CF. So, if they buy, it is for where they have seen enough of the prospects (CF/SS) OR they see a 2016 WS opportunity. I just don't see them grabbing a catcher now when they haven't done it since (as you said) Sandy (really Gomes maybe).

The Rockies have a couple/four guys that would be interesting.. They are sutcha poorly run franchise that any deal with them usually results in a disaster for the acquiring team.. Beck would be nice.. but.. the Rockies assessment of him and, therefore the return.. would reflect the Rockies front office's appraisals.. In a vague sort of way.. unless it's an outright deal.. passing on any overtures (initiated or received) should be done so with more than a modicum of care..

 

[sportscoach]

@Gson @Petes999 @CDAV45
@Criznit

Just a random thought....

What type of player do you think if we started a package with Genao/Chourio plus Messick?

I really feel like if we can get that 2 hole/Guy behind JRam in the lineup, we can make a playoff run...

 

[CDAV45]

@Gson @Petes999 @CDAV45
@Criznit

Just a random thought....

What type of player do you think if we started a package with Genao/Chourio plus Messick?

I really feel like if we can get that 2 hole/Guy behind JRam in the lineup, we can make a playoff run...

Not sure what you mean by a "2 hole/Guy behind JRam"? Jose can certainly use some protection and that guy will have to be able to slug a little bit at the very least. Guys like Kayfus and DeLauter are ideal, but Kwan, Jones, Santana and Manzardo are in the way. Against RHP, Schneemann has been doing a pretty fair job honestly. Against LHP we're in the dark. I don't know what the answer is because this roster is difficult to manipulate.

 

[Gson]

@Gson @Petes999 @CDAV45
@Criznit

Just a random thought....

What type of player do you think if we started a package with Genao/Chourio plus Messick?

I really feel like if we can get that 2 hole/Guy behind JRam in the lineup, we can make a playoff run...

On a non-contending team (Athletics, Rockies, Orioles, Pirates, Marlins and CWSox).. the Chourio/Genao pair (either/or both?) are both more than a little enticing.. Genao / Chourio are top flite prospects that would return a year plus 2-4 month rental. Example: Jesus Sanchez of the Marlins. He's got about two years plus the remainder of the 2025 season under team control. His salary has just started to rise as has his production. You gets wuts you paze for...

The situation has to be vastly more perfected for Messick to be considered by even these six teams.. as in, some ML experience between now and the trading deadline showing he can get ML hitters out.. otherwise, caution.. "nit-picking".. and the immediate response that those teams have "four Messick's already".. will ensue.. A pricey, no options, 3/4 month rental and or a change of scenery type player would be the "type".. of player Messick would return at this time.. That is.. a MiLB'er for ML'er.. That is a huge return.. If he proves he can get ML'ers out.. then the value quotient, tips...

This is one example.. there aren't many more and more perfect.. but Jesus Sanchez would be a stellar 2-hole hitter that can be a plug and play.. (Example of the MOST perfect # 2 hitter: Jack Wilson, Athletics) The open endedness of this question is more leading to nowhere and nothing.. sort of like the kinds of responses you get at the BTV site for EVERY F'ING COMMENT you make..

 

[CDAV45]

On a non-contending team (Athletics, Rockies, Orioles, Pirates, Marlins and CWSox).. the Chourio/Genao pair (either/or both?) are both more than a little enticing.. Genao / Chourio are top flite prospects that would return a year plus 2-4 month rental. Example: Jesus Sanchez of the Marlins. He's got about two years plus the remainder of the 2025 season under team control. His salary has just started to rise as has his production. You gets wuts you paze for...

The situation has to be vastly more perfected for Messick to be considered by even these six teams.. as in, some ML experience between now and the trading deadline showing he can get ML hitters out.. otherwise, caution.. "nit-picking".. and the immediate response that those teams have "four Messick's already".. will ensue.. A pricey, no options, 3/4 month rental and or a change of scenery type player would be the "type".. of player Messick would return at this time.. That is.. a MiLB'er for ML'er.. That is a huge return.. If he proves he can get ML'ers out.. then the value quotient, tips...

This is one example.. there aren't many more and more perfect.. but Jesus Sanchez would be a stellar 2-hole hitter that can be a plug and play.. (Example of the MOST perfect # 2 hitter: Jack Wilson, Athletics) The open endedness of this question is more leading to nowhere and nothing.. sort of like the kinds of responses you get at the BTV site for EVERY F'ING COMMENT you make..

I don't agree with your assessment of Messick, but I don't know that I'm right either. He's the best LHSP we have and his prospect value is on the rise. Regardless of what they could get for him now my asking price is quite high. I do believe he's starting to hit some top 100 lists isn't he?

I think the Orioles jump all over him if they find the cost tolerable. Same with the Marlins, Rockies and the WSox. The Pirates and A's have enough young pitching to sort through is my guess.

 

[Gson]

I don't agree with your assessment of Messick, but I don't know that I'm right either. He's the best LHSP we have and his prospect value is on the rise. Regardless of what they could get for him now my asking price is quite high. I do believe he's starting to hit some top 100 lists isn't he?

I think the Orioles jump all over him if they find the cost tolerable. Same with the Marlins, Rockies and the WSox. The Pirates and A's have enough young pitching to sort through is my guess.

Your assumed asking price for Messick is based on the best information you have to rely on.. nothing wrong with that.. It's just that.. imho, his profile says.. PROVE IT !! otherwise their jumping will have minimal light under their feet at the height of their jump...