25 GM Thread

[Petes999]

We cant just sit and do nothing either... hmm...

Cleveland's FO makes a lot of moves for blocked prospects/players that have team control... I am expecting at least a Straw/Luplow type of deal...

Anyone you see maybe on that type of market?

Also, i would never give up any of those three if we aren't getting someone without team control back. Miller had three years of control, that would be the minimum for sure...

You are trying to thread a needle here.

A 1-year rental at RF that can hit #2 is reasonable but not sexy. Think Laureano. And, they are not going to get a longer-term RF with DeLauter.

Thus, you move to a CF or SS who can hit #2. Think Perdomo (if Arizona drops out and goes Lawlar). But, they are looking RP more than Genao.

And, as I was trying to say, unless you get 3-year fix where we can see a Francisca or Mitchell/Rosario step up, trading Genao or Churio is just pushing the long-term problem of fixing those positions further down the road.

This still doesn't change FO mindset of seeing the young bats and working through their MLB transition. So should we do something, YES (if they see Bieber coming back and making us a serious contender). I can even see a 2016 WS moves at CF/SS that fixes a lot of our major needs. Yet a RF #2 hitter won't do that (not a major upgrade vs waiting for DeLauter).

 

[sportscoach]

You are trying to thread a needle here.

A 1-year rental at RF that can hit #2 is reasonable but not sexy. Think Laureano. And, they are not going to get a longer-term RF with DeLauter.

Thus, you move to a CF or SS who can hit #2. Think Perdomo (if Arizona drops out and goes Lawlar). But, they are looking RP more than Genao.

And, as I was trying to say, unless you get 3-year fix where we can see a Francisca or Mitchell/Rosario step up, trading Genao or Churio is just pushing the long-term problem of fixing those positions further down the road.

This still doesn't change FO mindset of seeing the young bats and working through their MLB transition. So should we do something, YES (if they see Bieber coming back and making us a serious contender). I can even see a 2016 WS moves at CF/SS that fixes a lot of our major needs. Yet a RF #2 hitter won't do that (not a major upgrade vs waiting for DeLauter).

This FO has to think outside the box to honestly fix any type of major issue like this... We got Straw when we needed a CF... We got Miller when we needed that guy... We tried to get Lucroy etc...

The problem is, who can we even go get?

 

[CDAV45]

Allen likely doesn't have the team control a team thats not contending wants. Baltimore maybe, but teams like the Marlins, are gonna want Messick over Allen since they arent near competitive levels yet.

Contenders trade prospects or blocked players for MLB guys... Non competitive teams trade MLB guys for prospects...

It really just depends on the team we are trading with for the type of return. It be extremely unlikely we get an MLB bat back for Allen unless it's a blocked MLB type...

He has 5 yrs of control. Well, 4.5 yrs of control at the deadline. Non-contenders will have interest in him too, but I do agree that most teams will want Messick. More because he is simply more talented instead of having more control.

Again, if Allen is dealt I suspect he will be part of a package deal for a hitter. You keep insinuating he'll be dealt by himself and I doubt that is the case.

 

[Petes999]

This FO has to think outside the box to honestly fix any type of major issue like this... We got Straw when we needed a CF... We got Miller when we needed that guy... We tried to get Lucroy etc...

The problem is, who can we even go get?

Odds are, they are probably going to make a trade as we have made one every year other than 2022 (even though 2020-2023 were more sell mode).
2016 - Miller and nixed Lucroy
2017 - Joe Smith
2018 - Martin and Mercado
2019 - Bauer for Puig and Reyes (Allen, Moss Nova)
2020 - Clevinger for Naylor, et all
2021 - Straw, Battenfield and Pilkington
2022 - None (Hamilton for Leon technically but more minor league trade)
2023 - Manzardo, Syndergaard
2024 - Cobb and Thomas

My issue is how to thread that needle for #2 hitter (if CF/SS - longer term needs, RF/2nd - expiring contract - don't block internally).

Sellers - Colorado, Miami, Pittsburgh, Nationals, WhiteSox, Athletics
Waiting - Braves, Reds, Arizona, Rangers, Angels, RedSox, Baltimore (some may just retool for next year than sell)

Colorado - Marquez, Gomber (expiring), Hilliard (2-years)
You say Beck but that is DeLauter territory (not really CF need) - and home/away splits are shit
You can look at Veen, Fernandez or Moniak - but none are a CFer
Amador for pitching maybe the best pairing but he is thought as more 2nd than SS as he fills out.

Miami - No expiring other than Quantrill
Victor Mesa - maybe a buy kind of lowish due to his chase (thus not your #2 hitter)

Pittsburgh - McCutchem, Pham, Frazier are amongst the expiring - Frazier is only one if YOU want an experienced utility guy as he is mostly 2nd still.
C - in Bart, Rodriquez and Davis but all are struggling this year (so buy LOW and ditch Hedges???)

Nationals - Bell, Rosario, DeJung are expiring.
Take back Call or Tena? Call struggled in May (very streaky for me)
Lile - too young at AAA (100 ABs) and doesn't play CF much

WhiteSox - Roberts (2-$20 mill Club option) and Taylor expiring
Taylor may improve your defense but hitting worth shit
Roberts - asking is too much and probably higher for us
Quero - Go after with Teal promotion?? High ask? Nice complement from Right side to Naylor but someone will bid as a starter

Athletics - Urshela, Urias, McFarland, Andujar (expiring)
So if cheap enough Urias for right side utility/2nd and McFarland for Loogyn Ingle
Langeliers for catching but out with strained oblique -- will it heal before deadline and will they really do that trade without a
Hernaiz has good AAA stats but is there a reason he is still there (better than Arias/Rocchio)?

Other than cheap Urias or McFarland, who would you target??? Will look at other teams (boarder line buyers/sellers) later but I only remember one or two type guys tha would fit either SS or CF. And our expiring in this group is lackluster at best.

 

[sportscoach]

Odds are, they are probably going to make a trade as we have made one every year other than 2022 (even though 2020-2023 were more sell mode).
2016 - Miller and nixed Lucroy
2017 - Joe Smith
2018 - Martin and Mercado
2019 - Bauer for Puig and Reyes (Allen, Moss Nova)
2020 - Clevinger for Naylor, et all
2021 - Straw, Battenfield and Pilkington
2022 - None (Hamilton for Leon technically but more minor league trade)
2023 - Manzardo, Syndergaard
2024 - Cobb and Thomas

My issue is how to thread that needle for #2 hitter (if CF/SS - longer term needs, RF/2nd - expiring contract - don't block internally).

Sellers - Colorado, Miami, Pittsburgh, Nationals, WhiteSox, Athletics
Waiting - Braves, Reds, Arizona, Rangers, Angels, RedSox, Baltimore (some may just retool for next year than sell)

Colorado - Marquez, Gomber (expiring), Hilliard (2-years)
You say Beck but that is DeLauter territory (not really CF need) - and home/away splits are shit
You can look at Veen, Fernandez or Moniak - but none are a CFer
Amador for pitching maybe the best pairing but he is thought as more 2nd than SS as he fills out.

Miami - No expiring other than Quantrill
Victor Mesa - maybe a buy kind of lowish due to his chase (thus not your #2 hitter)

Pittsburgh - McCutchem, Pham, Frazier are amongst the expiring - Frazier is only one if YOU want an experienced utility guy as he is mostly 2nd still.
C - in Bart, Rodriquez and Davis but all are struggling this year (so buy LOW and ditch Hedges???)

Nationals - Bell, Rosario, DeJung are expiring.
Take back Call or Tena? Call struggled in May (very streaky for me)
Lile - too young at AAA (100 ABs) and doesn't play CF much

WhiteSox - Roberts (2-$20 mill Club option) and Taylor expiring
Taylor may improve your defense but hitting worth shit
Roberts - asking is too much and probably higher for us
Quero - Go after with Teal promotion?? High ask? Nice complement from Right side to Naylor but someone will bid as a starter

Athletics - Urshela, Urias, McFarland, Andujar (expiring)
So if cheap enough Urias for right side utility/2nd and McFarland for Loogyn Ingle
Langeliers for catching but out with strained oblique -- will it heal before deadline and will they really do that trade without a
Hernaiz has good AAA stats but is there a reason he is still there (better than Arias/Rocchio)?

Other than cheap Urias or McFarland, who would you target??? Will look at other teams (boarder line buyers/sellers) later but I only remember one or two type guys tha would fit either SS or CF. And our expiring in this group is lackluster at best.

I feel like we are on the same page... Now Stowers of the Marlins, is a guy who is having a great season, but i feel like it's a fluke since he doesn't have a minor league track record...

I also think Baltimore will retool... i think they have to get pitching... But who is Baltimore willing to move for pitching?

 

[Petes999]

I feel like we are on the same page... Now Stowers of the Marlins, is a guy who is having a great season, but i feel like it's a fluke since he doesn't have a minor league track record...

I also think Baltimore will retool... i think they have to get pitching... But who is Baltimore willing to move for pitching?

So you buy high on Stowers but he is long-term RF with DeLauter/Jones/Fry(next year) and he doesn't have contact (high BABIP .364 this year with a 30ish% k rate. Not, your #2 hitter. Note, I am assuming Kayfus is more 1B/DH with Manzardo (with some possibility of Santana back) for next year pushing Fry to RF/C when healthy. Thus, is he enough of a upgrade for a high price for being a potential better than average younger player.

A few of the borderline sellers
Reds - They have Friedl, McLain, Lux and Benson.
Benson has been heading back to norm after hot start.
Lux seems to be the one that could be had for a 1-1/2 years. More DHing now but OPS of 100 or more can only help this lineup at the right price (but .378 BABip) and poor defense doesn't really scream make the deal.
Rogers maybe an outside expiring Loogy but at 34, his ERA is holding up better than his FIP but close to a career year.

Braves - Ozuna, Verdugo (expiring).

Ozuna was listed in a tweet as Passan and Onley podcast saying he would be a good fit in Cleveland. But sending down Fry and Manzardo. Has the power but not as #2. So an upgrade but at what cost for expiring.

Is Verdugo worth a flyer more than our guys?

Baldwin with Murphy ... but they will try to trade Murphy for a back-up and stuff. Murphy is wrong side of 30 with $15 x 3.5 year contract + club contract. Just a lot of $$$

Arizona - Expiring SP in Montgomery and Gallen and Corners in Naylor and Suarez
Do we bring back Naylor to pair with Santana (again demote Fry and Manzardo)

Perdomo was having a career year with the bat to start the season but last 28 days has went back to norm (.224/.652) - again how much of an upgrade over Arias? Just brought his name up as Lawlar is probably untouchable.

Another team that may look at trading a catcher with Moreno and Castillo. But, Castillo is probably not the type of defensive catcher we want and bats lefty so not a good pairing with Naylor.

Beeks is an interesting expiring Loogy -- that SC may see a trade for but I rather see Stephan and Bieber back...

Some better names on this NL list, but I don't see anything that moves the needle except Moreno for his defense but average bat makes him MAYBE a bit better than Bo but at what cost? Won't get to shift Bo as a back-up most likely.

 

[CDAV45]

I feel like we are on the same page... Now Stowers of the Marlins, is a guy who is having a great season, but i feel like it's a fluke since he doesn't have a minor league track record...

I also think Baltimore will retool... i think they have to get pitching... But who is Baltimore willing to move for pitching?

The lineup needs to be upgraded/lengthened. We shouldn't give a shit if it's a 2 hole hitter or a guy batting 8th. Give me production and the lineup can be adjusted. Hell, JRam can bat 2nd.

 

[Gson]

So you buy....

Some better names on this NL list, but I don't see anything that moves the needle except Moreno for his defense but average bat makes him MAYBE a bit better than Bo but at what cost? Won't get to shift Bo as a back-up most likely.

That's the thing when it comes to evaluating the usage rates of a catcher.. a good starter plays in about 100 games.. a good back up takes the rest.. a dozen or two games change makes them co-starters.. So, there isn't a starter/back up relationship.. it's a pair of starters..

imho.. Gabby Moreno would be a fine addition to the catching core of the Guardians and the CleFO would be wise to pay the price to get him...

 

[sportscoach]

That's the thing when it comes to evaluating the usage rates of a catcher.. a good starter plays in about 100 games.. a good back up takes the rest.. a dozen or two games change makes them co-starters.. So, there isn't a starter/back up relationship.. it's a pair of starters..

imho.. Gabby Moreno would be a fine addition to the catching core of the Guardians and the CleFO would be wise to pay the price to get him...

DBacks arent going to have that guy available... At least if the GM if worth anything...

 

[Gson]

DBacks arent going to have that guy available... At least if the GM if worth anything...

back again with your unfounded absolutes.. How did the DBax acquire HIS services???? (this is where you change the subject after repeating your comment)

 

[sportscoach]

back again with your unfounded absolutes.. How did the DBax acquire HIS services???? (this is where you change the subject after repeating your comment)

The DBacks got him for Varsho... He was a prospect at the time and Varsho was a borderline All-Star...

 

[Petes999]

That's the thing when it comes to evaluating the usage rates of a catcher.. a good starter plays in about 100 games.. a good back up takes the rest.. a dozen or two games change makes them co-starters.. So, there isn't a starter/back up relationship.. it's a pair of starters..

imho.. Gabby Moreno would be a fine addition to the catching core of the Guardians and the CleFO would be wise to pay the price to get him...

Yet, the same reason you want to trade for Moreno to have 1A and 1B catcher is the same reason (if not more so) why Arizona won't do it or demand king ransom so high no one would do it (Naylor and Ingle just for starters). Their current back-up in Herrera is worse than Hedges (at least hedges has positive bWAR/fWAR). Thus, trading Moreno leaves them with nothing, relying on a bat first/questionable catcher at best.

But, I did this to show that this year's trade market doesn't really line up with what we need long-term CF/SS. Thus, it will be hard to do a major upgrade (that I even want to pair with Ramirez, Kwan, Clase, Smith and Bieber when we have them). And, even if we try a young prospect C for prospect trades, those rarely line-up and happen in reality (few and far between). Usually buyers trade prospects for proven players. Thus, we would need to trade proven players to get the young catching prospects. The only other method is to trade proven player for proven player (where you rob the pen to sure up the hitting).

 

[Petes999]

So do we line up with the AL marginal playoff teams?

Rangers - A lot of their expiring contract are pitchers. Garcia does have 1-1/2 till FA but his contact BA has slipped the last few years to .220 range. Not, that big of an upgrade if any from our guys. And we would have to take on a $18.5 million contract for Pederson. Milner may be an interesting Loogy on expiring. But, again, I am fine with Stephan for Festa and Sabrowski for Junis upgrades. I would be interested in Carter but they will hold onto him as nothing much is in AAA to replace him.

Angels - Rengifo, Rengifo, Rengifo is struggling this year and I don't know if he would be our primary SS even if he wasn't. Moncado is on expiring but does he add much with Ramirez? D'Arnaud has another year at $6 million so could be a back-up if we ditch Hedgie (which I doubt). Even Soler has another $16 million for DH/RF which we are fine at.


RedSox - Again, a lot of their expiring are pitchers. Unless you think you can pry Myer or Campbell from their middle infield equation, what else is there? Yes, Rafaela is a better version of Martinez and Schneemann so a possibility but with 4 years of control, he will be out of range (want experienced players aka a Smith/Ortiz type of package). We will get outbid from a more desperate team on Chapman. J Garcia in a year would be an interesting call-up for CF/RF but just got his first few licks in AAA.


Baltimore - Mullins expiring in CF is interesting. O'Hearn is expiring so yes could be had for RF. They aren't trading Holiday or Hernandez. Mateo is struggling. Laureano is having a decent year statistically with the bat but isn't hitting lefties (and limited duties so not well scouted or worried about). You can try for Mayo but really at 1B and 3B with what we have? Westburg is 2nd/3rd base option but have Brito/Bazanna coming. Beavers is said to be more corner OF and streaky. He is having a great AAA but with unsustainable .394 BABip.

As SC says, Baltimore is one team with a few targets that may work out, but more so for OF where FO seems committed to ride or die with Thomas. We will see.

 

[sportscoach]

These trade candidates have seen their stock start to soar

Although the Trade Deadline is still more than seven weeks away, we recently examined some of the biggest questions that need to be answered as teams around the Majors begin to formulate their plans for trade season. Aside from a handful, it’s still unclear which clubs will be buyers and

www.mlb.com

Any guys on there we want?

 

[CDAV45]

These trade candidates have seen their stock start to soar

Although the Trade Deadline is still more than seven weeks away, we recently examined some of the biggest questions that need to be answered as teams around the Majors begin to formulate their plans for trade season. Aside from a handful, it’s still unclear which clubs will be buyers and

www.mlb.com

Any guys on there we want?

Pains me to see Finnegan was signed for $6M while Cleveland signed Sewald for $7M. I wanted them to pursue Finnegan.