Andre Miller/Possibilities?

[TheAdmin]

Are you serious? Pavlovic with Miller is like a welcome mat at the foul line for speedy guards.

Never said anything about defensively. I was talking offensively. With Sasha's ability to hit the set shot and the ability to get to the hole he would be perfect playing along side Miller.

But since you brought up the defensive side of the ball... Until Boobie stops playing slap defense and bulks up Miller will be better defensively.

 

[PIP]

I'd like to get another player that can take some of the playmaking duties off of LeBron's shoulders... Take him off the ball and let him finish...

Miller provides this.

 

[B Mac]

While all those players are "similar" to Miller, most of them are not as good as Miller, and I don't think even one of them was better. There really isn't much risk unless we decide to extend him. He'll be just 31 years old next season with a nice fat $10m expiring contract we can try to move if he's not contributing.

The risk is in that if we do wind up getting Miller we wont be able to make a run at anyone else who would be a better fit that might happen to come free as the season progresses. Hint Hint.

 

[Pioneer10]

Miller is a bad long range shooter but always thought he was a good midrange shooter unlike Snow or even Hughes. Havent' watched Philly that much though: can he still hit the midrange shot? If he still can that should alleviate the concerns a bit about fitting in with Lebron

 

[Jon]

If the Cavs can trade Snow and Jones to get Miller, sure, no problem. I'd take it. At this point though, I don't know if the Cavs can spare Ira Newble until the front court situation resolves.

Neither Snow nor Jones expire this year, so, I don't think that'd be enough. Ira+Jones would recoup Philly nearly $6m they can spend on a free agent and open up a roster spot for us that we could use to sign a real big. Ira's doing what he can, but he's only 6'7"...

 

[Douglar]

Here are some other scary numbers for you Miller fans--

http://www.82games.com/0708/07PHI1D.HTM

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 width=500 bgColor=#cccccc border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#33cc33><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]Stat[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]ON Court[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]OFF Court[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]Net[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]Minutes[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]408 [/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]172 [/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]70%[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#e5e5e5><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]Offense: Pts per 100 Poss.[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]94.9[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]108.1[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]-13.3[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#e5e5e5><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]104.6[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]103.2[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]+1.4[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


No other player on that team has such a strong correlation between court time and weak offense as Miller does.

It seems like a lot of people who want Miller are thinking about the Miller from a couple years ago. Miller's player profile predicts a big slide this year. He's living up to it so far this season. Very little chance he pulls out of it either. There are lots of scarey prediction numbers here that say "don't give up any talent to get this guy"

 

[Otis]

No, I wouldn't even consider giving up AV for AM. Now Newble+ DJ, or some other combination of expendable players such as Shannon or Marshall, sure. We hold all the cards with AV if we don't get impatient and make a stupid move. Who really thinks AV is going to sit out the entire season and make ZERO dollars this year and be in the same exact situation next year looking at a low qualifying offer again? The clocks a tickin because AV has already missed 14 games. He has already lost 14/110 (12.7%) of this years salary unless the Cavs generously agree to pay him for not being here.

 

[TheAdmin]

Here are some other scary numbers for you Miller fans--

http://www.82games.com/0708/07PHI1D.HTM

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 width=500 bgColor=#cccccc border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#33cc33><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]Stat[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]ON Court[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]OFF Court[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]Net[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]Minutes[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]408 [/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]172 [/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]70%[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#e5e5e5><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]Offense: Pts per 100 Poss.[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]94.9[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]108.1[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]-13.3[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#e5e5e5><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]104.6[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]103.2[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>[SIZE=-1]+1.4[/SIZE]</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

It seems like a lot of people who want Miller are thinking about the Miller from a couple years ago. Miller's player profile predicts a big slide this year. He's living up to it so far this season. Very little chance he pulls out of it either. There are lots of scarey prediction numbers here that say "don't give up any talent to get this guuy"

Seems like a lot of people who don't want Miller are thinking 12 games makes a season.

 

[Douglar]

Seems like a lot of people who don't want Miller are thinking 12 games makes a season.

Ben, you don't like the player career correlations. You don't like the stats he's putting up in 15% of a season. Looks like you have your mind made up that Miller is a good addition and you don't want to look at anything that says otherwise.

However all the predictors I've looked at have been pretty scarey. If Philly manages to trade Miller, it's going to be because of his rep and his contract, it isn't going to be because he's still an effective floor general. That's just not the case anymore. It isn't very likely to start happening again either.

 

[Jon]

Havent' watched Philly that much though: can he still hit the midrange shot?

He's right around 40% eFG with his jumper the past two years with Philly and the year before in Denver. Not really any better than Hughes or James. It looks like he's most efficient scoring inside.

Anyway, when you pick up an aging vet exiting his prime you take some risks. The question is just whether you can accommodate them. With guys like Bibby and Miller, at least their contracts turn in to assets next season.

 

[TheAdmin]

Ben, you don't like the player career correlations. You don't like the stats he's putting up in 15% of a season. Looks like you have your mind made up that Miller is a good addition and you don't want to look at anything that says otherwise.

However all the predictors I've looked at have been pretty scarey. If Philly manages to trade Miller, it's going to be because of his rep and his contract, it isn't going to be because he's still an effective floor general. That's just not the case anymore. It isn't very likely to start happening again either.

I don't like the player career correlations because they are based on different types of players. None of them had the ability of Miller. The only thing they have in common is maybe body type but from soup to the nuts they are totally different players.

Bring up stats after 40 games, but this early in the season they are fools gold and I'm not feeling foolish at the moment.

 

[Douglar]

Guess which is which:

One of these guys is Andre Miller the floor general and the other is an unnamed second year guard who shares most of his floor time with a very high usage all-star wing player named Lebron.

Who's a better fit?

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 240pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=320 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" span=5 width=64><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 28.5pt; mso-height-source: userset" height=38><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 28.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64 height=38></TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffcc99" width=64>Minutes Played</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffcc99" width=64>Assists</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffcc99" width=64>Shot Attempts</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffcc99" width=64>Points</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffcc99" height=17>Player 1</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>407</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>48</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>159</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>170</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffcc99" height=17>Player 2</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>455</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>41
</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num><NOBR>116
</NOBR></TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num><NOBR>178</NOBR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[Jon]

The risk is in that if we do wind up getting Miller we wont be able to make a run at anyone else who would be a better fit that might happen to come free as the season progresses. Hint Hint.

Missed this post in the flood, but I agree. The only reason I wouldn't do a deal like Newble+Jones for Miller is if we think we can pull off something even better.

 

[redscoon]

You might have sold me on this a couple years ago, but not today.

This just seems like it would end in another Hughes-esque situation. Lebron is going to have the ball the majority of the time no matter what. Miller is not a guy who is going to finish at the rim and he is not a guy you want catching and shooting.

Get me a guy who can catch a Lebron pass and bury a 3 or a guy who can take his man off the dribble and finish strong at the hoop. If you can't do that, you better be a big who can play some serious defense. If you aren't any of those three, I don't want you.

 

[TruBuckeye22]

i just don't get a lot of people on this board most of the time. 1st the whine and moan that Ferry isn't doing his job because he hasn't picked up a PG but then there is a PG who might be available and they whine and moan that they don't want that guy. news flash the Jazz aren't going to trade Williams, the Hornets aren't trading Paul, and the Raptors aren't even going to trade Calderon. maybe the Nets through in the towel and put Kidd but if they don't then what?