Andrew Wiggins

[CHIMOCHIS]

Dudes a skinny Melo

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Trade value doesn't work that way Ty. We paid much more than it was needed for a potential rental it's not close. Wiggins was still a very very highly touted prospect and is still going by his "potential and physical tools" around the league when you consider the contract that he got was based on his potential and not his current production per se.

This argument is sooooo old.

Look, the valuation mistake you guys made was assuming that the values of Wiggins, Bennett, and Waiter would only go up. That claim - which I read here countless times - revealed a fundamental misunderstanding of how present value is measured.

As it turned out, playing hardball and waiting until later in the season to work that trade would have resulted in the value of our package going down. We traded Wiggins and Bennett at the point when their trade value was at its highest.

All we had in mind was that championship run and we thought Kevin Love was going to be the missing piece, but he wasn't. We had to overpay for role players at the dead line in order to be considered top 2 with GSW and even so we were short of a championship because of untimely injuries.

You're arguing both sides. You're saying that 1) it isn't right to value the trade by looking into the future and seeing that they weren't as good as expected, but 2) it's okay to value the trade by looking into the future to see the injuries in the 2015 Finals that prevented us from winning a title.

We won the championship in 2016, and without those injuries, we'd probably have won in 2015 as well.

It was a smart trade for good value.

 

[cavsfever]

I still think we could have squeezed Dieng out of them, who would have looked better here than he did there. Think he's one of those guys who is older than he says and he's also aging in dog years, but he still would have filled a need for us.

We really saved their ass with that trade, gave them a fresh exciting star for losing their best player.

 

[Gus Zing]

I still think we could have squeezed Dieng out of them, who would have looked better here than he did there. Think he's one of those guys who is older than he says and he's also aging in dog years, but he still would have filled a need for us.

We really saved their ass with that trade, gave them a fresh exciting star for losing their best player.

Yep. Love was headed to LA.

In essence we saved Love as well. Playing with LeBron is the best thing for his career as he gets older.

 

[Cavatt]

Wiggins value would have been higher by the trade deadline. He was ROY. Bennett never had any value after his rookie year.

I thought a lot about having Waiters after Kyrie went down. JR played poorly that first finals. Not a single guy could break down the defense off the dribble except LeBron. Delly did that one game.

 

[Rich]

I still think we could have squeezed Dieng out of them, who would have looked better here than he did there. Think he's one of those guys who is older than he says and he's also aging in dog years, but he still would have filled a need for us.

We really saved their ass with that trade, gave them a fresh exciting star for losing their best player.

Except he still has yet to play like a star and we're in year 4 now. He's a minus player. Like, this trade looks better and better by the year for us. Kevin has clearly outplayed Wiggins every single year. And so far this year it looks as thought Wiggins is actually taking a step back, or at best he's plateauing, and that's a BAD sign.

Right now Wiggins isn't as good as a guy like MIddleton. And MIddleton is no all-star caliber player. He's not as good as Otto Porter. Tobias Harris. Robert Covington.

None of these guys are all-stars. There's a good chance none of them ever will be. And they're all better than Wiggins right now. He's well outside of the top 10 small forwards in the league.

Like, WE dodged a bullet trading him instead of being in the position right now of possibly maxing him out.

 

[blommen]

Even if Wiggins had turned into a full on stud last year I don't think I would go back on the trade if I could. Kevin Love has an entirely unique skillset that was instrumental in getting us a god damn Championship.

Can't put a price on that.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Wiggins value would have been higher by the trade deadline. He was ROY.. Bennett never had any value after his rookie year.

Wiggins was ROY by default because that was a terrible rookie class. Embiid didn't play at all, and Parker only played in 25 games.

That trade illustrates perfectly the difference between rookie upside, and proven NBA performance. There was a chance Wiggins could be special, but also a chance he would be what he is right now because he came into the league with some areas clearly needing work. With Love, you knew you were getting at least a borderline all-star, perhaps more, from day one. Give the situation that Cavs were in, they rightly traded the lottery ticket for proven performance.

A healthy Embiid may have been a different story because he was a more complete player with a higher floor. But he wasn't healthy, so that choice wasn't available.

I thought a lot about having Waiters after Kyrie went down.

Waiters would have been a warm body, which we could have used. But you could say the same thing about 50 other guys in the league who wouldn't jave had all of Dion's flaws.

 

[Derek]

FWIW, Wiggins consistently plays GSW like a damn superstar like how most atheltic wings/forwards do (see RJ and how he helped us against them)

Wiggins has averaged 20-4-3 in 12 games against GS in his career with a .532 TS%

Love averaged 16-11-1 in last year's finals with a .528 TS%

 

[czvo]

Wiggins has averaged 20-4-3 in 12 games against GS in his career with a .532 TS%

Love averaged 16-11-1 in last year's finals with a .528 TS%

So basically his regular averages (for Wiggins)

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Wiggins value would have been higher by the trade deadline. He was ROY. Bennett never had any value after his rookie year.

I thought a lot about having Waiters after Kyrie went down. JR played poorly that first finals. Not a single guy could break down the defense off the dribble except LeBron. Delly did that one game.

Not sure we even get to the Finals with Dion instead of Shump+JR+Mozgov(Remember, Dion got us the first 2 PLUS the pick we needed to get Moz)

 

[Rich]

Wiggins hasn't signed that extension yet, correct?

If that's the case, the Wolves should pull it and try to trade him. Dead serious. This is the same damn player he was 2 seasons ago.

EDIT: Nm, after digging he signed it.

Still, he's making 7.5 million this year. I'd trade him (as long as its allowed, not sure if there's some rule against trading players who just signed extensions?) while his contract is easily movable for either a useful player back or some draft picks or some combo of both. Not like Butler is a free agent in the summer and neither is Towns. Get out of that deal before you can't. Someone out there will be willing to trade for him, I'm sure. Someone signed Harrison Barnes to a max deal, after all.

 

[MGMT]

Yea, the dude either doesn't know what a good shot is or he doesn't care. He isn't shooting well from outside at all and you can't be a high-usage wing and shoot 60% from the line. You have to be close to fed up if you're a wolves fan -- guy just doesn't seem like he's taking that leap.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Wiggins hasn't signed that extension yet, correct?

If that's the case, the Wolves should pull it and try to trade him. Dead serious. This is the same damn player he was 2 seasons ago.

EDIT: Nm, after digging he signed it.

Still, he's making 7.5 million this year. I'd trade him (as long as its allowed, not sure if there's some rule against trading players who just signed extensions?) while his contract is easily movable for either a useful player back or some draft picks or some combo of both. Not like Butler is a free agent in the summer and neither is Towns. Get out of that deal before you can't. Someone out there will be willing to trade for him, I'm sure. Someone signed Harrison Barnes to a max deal, after all.

Since he signed an extension that is set to kick in next season, his contract is subject to the Poison Pill Provision(PPP)

This means it's nearly impossible to trade him at all. It works like this:

His outgoing salary in a trade is still 7.5 million. So Minnesota is sending out 7.5 million.

But his incoming salary is the average of this years salary and his salary in all the years of his extension. So you average the 1 year of 7.5 million with the 5 years of 30ish million. Some quick and crude math puts Wiggins incoming trade value at around $25.6 million dollars. So the team that Wiggins is traded to receives 25.6 million in salary.

So this obviously makes a deal damn near impossible. Because Minnesota basically either has to trade Wiggins to a team with a ton of cap space, or at the very least find a team with cap space to help facilitate the trade.

Just for example if they tried to trade him to the Cavs: The Cavs would have to send like 22 million dollars out to be able to add Wiggins. But Minnesota who is over the cap can only accept around 9 million dollars in incoming salary. The 13 million difference basically has to be eaten up by cap space. You can maybe play add some players on both sides and using the 20% buffer slightly lower that number. But realistically there's no way of getting it out of the 11-13 million dollar range.

Philly has about 14.5 million. Bulls have about 15.5. Dallas has about 12.5-13. Phoenix around 10.

$13 million in cap space aint free. Would definitely cost a pretty penny on top of an already complicated trade. And none of those teams would trade for Wiggins, pretty confident in that.

So basically...Wiggins is borderline untradeable at the moment. That extension pretty much locked the wolves into their roster. One of the reasons why I think the head coach+team president thing is really stupid(there's a reason it only works for Popovich and even he has empowered R.C. Buford to control the cap/assets/contracts) Honestly it might even cost more to rent that cap space than it would asset-wise to get Wiggins.

 

[Cement]

This guy is terrible.