Baker Mayfield: Chips and Shoulders

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Vee-Rex

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Agreed... Injuries and performance are not some binary thing. Its easier to utilize basketball players as an example because there are fewer external factors to their performance that add noise to how we evaluate them. We OFTEN see basketball players return from injuries or play through injuries and have lost a little bit of that extra step on a drive, or lift on a jumper... but that doesn't stop them from lighting it up from time to time and having the kind of game that calls into question whether injury is really a factor. Hell, we saw that consistently from Garland in his first season+ (Jarratt Allen at the end of last year is another strong example).

That said, I don't think that injury is reason to absolve Baker of all shortcomings.. that would be the other extreme in how we evaluate him. But to take this year's 'injured' performance and stack it up to a healthy Baker from mid last year to week two of this year and say that injury should have no place in evaluating him because he was able to mix in a few good performances seems like a narrow approach.
Fully agreed. And there are examples of NFL players having a good performance or two with some pretty bad injuries. Emmitt Smith had a huge performance on a dislocated shoulder, McNabb threw for 250 and 4 TDs on a broken ankle, Leftwich had a broken leg and led a 17-point comeback for Marshall, driving up and down the field multiple times. They ended up losing, but dude had to be carried by his linemen from snap to snap. Overall, they'll perform at a lower level than if healthy, but being injured doesn't mean you can't put up some good performances here and there, definitely not binary as implied.

I played basketball all throughout my youth (highest level only high school > then University COC basketball programs). Played in a 6-game church tournament on shin splints one time. Shin splints are AWFUL in terms of pain, man. I played like shit but one game I played very well and got a triple-double + team MVP for that game. Things just went right, and despite the limited athleticism I was able to make everything count.

I've also had big games in rec centers playing on heel spurs (achilles tendinitis) but overall my performance wasn't as good as I could have been if fully healthy.

Anyway, I don't think injury should excuse Baker but I don't know how anyone can't cut him SOME slack having a completely torn labrum, shoulder fracture, and bone bruises in his knee and heel, just because he had a couple good games vs. the Bengals and Chargers. Just seems like logic from someone who isn't accustomed to how injuries work.
 

DatDudeZ3

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If you’re ok with the treadmill of mediocrity and not winning a Super Bowl then Baker is your QB long term! Kind of reminds me of Andy Dalton on all of those talented/playoff Bengals teams… they were good but I always felt Dalton couldn’t take them where they needed to go and was holding them back.. Yes, the Browns won a playoff game “with” Baker but that doesn’t mean the QB can take you to the next level.

Personally as of now, would play out Baker’s contract and look elsewhere to save money after that if you can’t find an upgrade rather than pay Baker long term.
 

Bkerr02

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If you’re ok with the treadmill of mediocrity and not winning a Super Bowl then Baker is your QB long term! Kind of reminds me of Andy Dalton on all of those talented/playoff Bengals teams… they were good but I always felt Dalton couldn’t take them where they needed to go and was holding them back.. Yes, the Browns won a playoff game “with” Baker but that doesn’t mean the QB can take you to the next level.

Personally as of now, would play out Baker’s contract and look elsewhere to save money after that if you can’t find an upgrade rather than pay Baker long term.
Baker is better than Andy Dalton smh
 

Deezus

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Context is king.

The NFL has altered the rules and slanted things so favorably toward passing offenses since 2005 that it's practically a different sport.

I'm not quite sure how to break this to you this... but Baker Mayfield has sucked this season. That's just a stone cold fact.

Is he hurt? Obviously yes. Is that negatively impacting his play? Most likely. But the fact of the matter is, Baker Mayfield is out there on the field every week. And if he's healthy enough to get on the field, then we have no choice but to hold him to the standard that he's healthy enough to play to the best of his ability.

In summary: "Context is king" with regards to the league's rules favorably impacting QB play, but context is to be ignored with regards to QB injuries very clearly negatively impacting QB play.
Got it!

drinking-fail.gif
 

The Wizard of Moz

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I’ve defended Baker a lot and think going with him next year is the best route available

But he’s a front runner to the max and it shows up both on the field and off the field. And that’s one of the things that bothers me most about him

When things are going well, I love having Baker as the team leader

When things are not going well, Baker usually embarrasses himself by acting like he is all of 8 years old. Dude just mentally shuts down when the going gets tough and in the NFL there is no avoiding that the going will get tough from time to time
 

Sharpner

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buzzdog

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I find the overly simplistic dismissal of the effects of different injuries to be a lazy analysis from people who otherwise go to great lengths to find statistical justification to make the point that Mayfield simply sucks for no justifiable reason other than he just isn't good, period.

Injuries don't always have a consistent effect on performances. I think for the majority of the Cinci game Baker was feeling pretty good and it was reflected in his performance. He then injured his heel at some point during that game.

IMO the heel had a significant effect on his throwing accuracy against the Pats. The that game he also hurt his knee. which couldn't have helped matters.

All of that seems to have carried over to the Lions game. IMO Mayfield should have been benched much earlier in the Pats game, and they had no business playing him at all against the Lions. Some people want to blame Baker for the fact that he played that game when it should fall squarely on the Browns coaching and management.

If you make even the slightest attempt to put this sequence together it falls into place but apparently that isn't worth considering to people who already have their mind made up that everything is Baker's fault, Baker sucks, and there is no room for disagreement. And apparently this sucky version of Mayfield is all he'll ever be, he has no chance of ever improving over what we've seen this season. It's apparently a proven fact that is beyond refuting in the minds of certain people.
 

CBBI

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I’ve defended Baker a lot and think going with him next year is the best route available

Best route available and most realistic route available aren't the same thing :chuckle:

Considering Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson and Deshaun Watson all appear primed to be traded in about 4 months, there's almost no scenario where bringing Baker back is the best thing the Browns could do at their QB position this offseason.

It obviously takes two to tango, and any of those QBs would have to want to come to Cleveland for it to happen, but if there's any indication those guys do and the Browns don't make it happen (I'd stick Carr in that mix too), then we have an issue.

All that said, I do think that the likelihood of Baker starting for the Browns in 2022 is quite high. So for his sake, and more important the organization's sake, I hope he plays much better.
 

The Wizard of Moz

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Best route available and most realistic route available aren't the same thing :chuckle:

Considering Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson and Deshaun Watson all appear primed to be traded in about 4 months, there's almost no scenario where bringing Baker back is the best thing the Browns could do at their QB position this offseason.

It obviously takes two to tango, and any of those QBs would have to want to come to Cleveland for it to happen, but if there's any indication those guys do and the Browns don't make it happen (I'd stick Carr in that mix too), then we have an issue.

All that said, I do think that the likelihood of Baker starting for the Browns in 2022 is quite high. So for his sake, and more important the organization's sake, I hope he plays much better.
Well yeah the best route is Mahomes but there isn’t enough red stripe in the world to get him here

I don’t view Rodgers as realistic

Watson is a huge risk and I would need to pay almost no compensation to entertain it and that is a huge difference from what the Texans have been asking

Wilson would be awesome, but again, red stripe
 

CBBI

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Well yeah the best route is Mahomes but there isn’t enough red stripe in the world to get him here

I don’t view Rodgers as realistic

Watson is a huge risk and I would need to pay almost no compensation to entertain it and that is a huge difference from what the Texans have been asking

Wilson would be awesome, but again, red stripe

When the maul hits the wedge my friend.
 

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