Baker Mayfield Gettin' funky on the field

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Sebastian

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You lost me on the dismount.

So is Jared Goff a good cat?

The Rams were 10-6 with him as QB.

I think we can live in a world where team performance can be good, in-spite of QB play.

That isn't to say Baker is Jared Goff but the attribution of team success, relative to QB play, is pretty cloudy in some instances.

ELO, Rating, QBR.......most of these say Baker is a pretty average QB, with QBR liking him most at #10 overall last season. A number and rank he has not come close to in his other 2.25 seasons. ELO was #16, Rating #15. We'll see how the rest of 2021 goes.
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Should be noted that Stefanski decided to reprogram Baker and that has been successful according to what Stefanski wanted (I.e. fewer turnovers). That proved Baker is coachable. We know he has the arm to throw downfield.

I‘ll be interested to see how Baker plays the rest of this year. My guess is Stefanski will want him to adjust a bit towards more aggressive play.

For those arguing Stefanski “cost” the Browns a game because of the third down draw play - Kevin admitted it was a bad call, but it was by no means certain a pass play would have worked either.
 

I'mWithDan

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Should be noted that Stefanski decided to reprogram Baker and that has been successful according to what Stefanski wanted (I.e. fewer turnovers). That proved Baker is coachable. We know he has the arm to throw downfield.

I‘ll be interested to see how Baker plays the rest of this year. My guess is Stefanski will want him to adjust a bit towards more aggressive play.

For those arguing Stefanski “cost” the Browns a game because of the third down draw play - Kevin admitted it was a bad call, but it was by no means certain a pass play would have worked either.

I think the really difficult thing to decipher is how becoming less risk averse overall has effected his play when risk is necessary.

Baker was most effective on 3rd downs in his rookie year, when he was just slinging the rock. He's been far less effective under Stefanski on 3rd down.

On the flip side, Baker has been wildly effective under Stefanski, on 1st and especially 2nd down, where scheme and play selection unknown works in his favor

1st down performance:

2018: 127-196, 64.8%, 1649 yards, 8.4 YPA, 11 TD, 5.6 TD%, 7 INT, 3.6% INT, 9 SK, 95.0 Rating
2019: 120-197, 60.9%, 1528 yards, 7.8 YPA, 12 TD, 6.1 TD%, 7 INT, 3.5% INT, 16 SK, 90.7 Rating
2020: 102-167, 61.1%, 1260 yards, 7.5 YPA, 7 TD, 4.2 TD%, 1 INT, 0.6% INT, 6 SK, 95.9 Rating
2021: 43-55, 78.2%, 597 yards, 10.8 YPA, 0 TD, 0.0 TD%, 1 INT, 1.8% INT, 2 SK, 104.3 Rating

2nd down performance:

2019: 99-151, 65.6%, 1007 yards, 6.7 YPA, 7 TD, 4.6 TD%, 2 INT, 1.3% INT, 5 SK, 94.4 Rating
2019: 116-188, 61.7%, 1375 yards, 7.3 YPA, 3 TD, 1.6 TD%, 6 INT, 3.2% INT, 7 SK, 76.0 Rating
2020: 128-182, 70.3%, 1477 yards, 8.1 YPA, 12 TD, 6.6 TD%, 3 INT, 1.6% INT, 14 SK, 109.6 Rating
2021: 35-52, 67.3%, 409 yards, 7.9 YPA, 4 TD, 7.7 TD%, 0 INT, 0.0% INT, 3 SK, 116.6 Rating

Cumulative 1st and 2nd down performance, Under Stefanski:

308-456, 67.5%, 3743 yards, 8.2 YPA, 23 TD, 5.0 TD%, 5 INT, 1.1% INT, 25 SK, 104.82 Rating

Cumulative 3rd down performance, Under Stefanski:

85-159, 54.0%, 935 yards, 5.9 YPA, 6 TD, 3.7 TD%, 5 INT, 3.1% INT, 10 SK, 70.61 Rating

Tough to know if the root issue is "reprogramming" Baker on early downs.......as he's so successful there. Maybe it is tendency on tape, that DC's have seen.....maybe it is bad play calling? Which seems strange, relative to the Browns ranking #8 overall last year in 3rd down % but maybe someone wants to make that argument. Relative to some of the stats pulled on Allen, Jackson....I think it seems far more likely Baker just isn't playing well on 3rd down, for reasons that are probably mostly attributed to him.
 

I'mWithDan

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So his defense was Joe Flacco, Jimmy G, Goff and strangely added Matt Ryan in his prime (who was an MVP)?

I realize this is first take......but there has to be a better argument for Baker than this. :chuckle:

He's not a QB that wins you a super bowl.......but he is a QB you can win a Super Bowl with?

What tier does everyone believe this is? Isn't there more nuance?

Can win you a Super Bowl:

Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady, Allen, Wilson

Guys you can win a Super Bowl With:

Dak, Lamar, Herbert, Stafford

Guys you might (some other word) win a Super Bowl With:

Murray (is he higher?), Carr, Tannehill, Cousins, Mayfield

There seems to be a rather large amount of separation (to me), between guys like Dak, Stafford, Lamar (opinions will be mixed) and the other guys like Carr, etc.
 

Amherstcavsfan

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So...I wrote an article:


And then someone on twitter asked me if he was more focused on running than throwing. So I had to look.

Baker's rushing stats nearly doubled last year, and he's due to run even more this year. I wonder if this is another focus that's been added by Stefanski to challenge defenses with his legs rather than using his arm.

Just another thing to factor in.
 

I'mWithDan

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So...I wrote an article:


And then someone on twitter asked me if he was more focused on running than throwing. So I had to look.

Baker's rushing stats nearly doubled last year, and he's due to run even more this year. I wonder if this is another focus that's been added by Stefanski to challenge defenses with his legs rather than using his arm.

Just another thing to factor in.

I think this is one of the more interesting questions with Baker.......as it is possible it is philosophical with Stefanski. The YPA drop is very significant on 3rd down for example, even though a pretty healthy percentage of his throws are coming in longer distance situations.

I guess Stefanski would have to answer this at some point......but I am sort of curious if the strategic answer to some of this is possibly that the Browns try to convert higher risk plays (3rd downs) in as low of a risk fashion as possible. That could explain why we might be opting to encourage Baker to tuck and run more if a 1st read is not there or to design a run for him or have him throw shorter more often and try to YAC first downs?

I don't know. That is really speculative. But that is the only logical answer I see as to why there is this crazy disparity between 1st/2nd down and 3rd down......other than it just being a player limitation.
 
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So his defense was Joe Flacco, Jimmy G, Goff and strangely added Matt Ryan in his prime (who was an MVP)?

I realize this is first take......but there has to be a better argument for Baker than this. :chuckle:

He's not a QB that wins you a super bowl.......but he is a QB you can win a Super Bowl with?

What tier does everyone believe this is? Isn't there more nuance?

Can win you a Super Bowl:

Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady, Allen, Wilson

Guys you can win a Super Bowl With:

Dak, Lamar, Herbert, Stafford

Guys you might (some other word) win a Super Bowl With:

Murray (is he higher?), Carr, Tannehill, Cousins, Mayfield

There seems to be a rather large amount of separation (to me), between guys like Dak, Stafford, Lamar (opinions will be mixed) and the other guys like Carr, etc.
Where would you put Nick Foles on that list?
 

buzzdog

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I have to admit this argument is getting tired and old with me.

One thing I'd like to point out though.

There was a pretty good chunk of time where the number 1 criticism of Baker Mayfield was that he was over-targeting Odell Beckham Jr. to the detriment of every other receiver on the roster. My recollection is, this went on for a long time, and it was pretty intense and consistent criticism, until OBJ got hurt.

Now, the number 1 criticism of Baker Mayfield seems to be that he is failing to target OBJ for "home runs", and instead "settling" for 25 yard "doubles".

Weird.
 

DirtyDan

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I have to admit this argument is getting tired and old with me.

One thing I'd like to point out though.

There was a pretty good chunk of time where the number 1 criticism of Baker Mayfield was that he was over-targeting Odell Beckham Jr. to the detriment of every other receiver on the roster. My recollection is, this went on for a long time, and it was pretty intense and consistent criticism, until OBJ got hurt.

Now, the number 1 criticism of Baker Mayfield seems to be that he is failing to target OBJ for "home runs", and instead "settling" for 25 yard "doubles".

Weird.
There's a balance to strike here. When OBJ is consistently getting open and Baker passes on those opportunities and instead go for short yard passes that end up being ineffectual - there's a clear problem.

No one wants Baker to force the ball to OBJ when it's not there, but if Baker played with some anticipation then maybe OBJ wouldn't look invisible out there?

OBJ is playing his role, it's up to Baker to stand and deliver.
 
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DJTJ

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So his defense was Joe Flacco, Jimmy G, Goff and strangely added Matt Ryan in his prime (who was an MVP)?

I realize this is first take......but there has to be a better argument for Baker than this. :chuckle:

He's not a QB that wins you a super bowl.......but he is a QB you can win a Super Bowl with?

What tier does everyone believe this is? Isn't there more nuance?

Can win you a Super Bowl:

Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady, Allen, Wilson

Guys you can win a Super Bowl With:

Dak, Lamar, Herbert, Stafford

Guys you might (some other word) win a Super Bowl With:

Murray (is he higher?), Carr, Tannehill, Cousins, Mayfield

There seems to be a rather large amount of separation (to me), between guys like Dak, Stafford, Lamar (opinions will be mixed) and the other guys like Carr, etc.

Kyler (and Herbert) will shortly be in the first category. The difference being Kliff’s inability to manage a game will never allow them to win a Super Bowl.

Kyler makes RIDICULOUS throws week in and week out, and unlike Lamar, he’s really developed to wanting to throw the ball rather than bailing to just show off athleticism.
 

thestatman

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Do you see the irony in whining about cherry picking stats and then using an 8-10 period of games, that consists of 15% of his career, in order to satisfy yours? I just want to make sure we are on the same page here. :chuckle:

As posted above, look at the aggregate 3rd down data......there's some good, but mainly a lot of bad. Draw your own conclusions.

The crux of the issue is that we are now in a position to win.....and Baker's recent performance, late in games, has torpedoed. That recent performance will just matter more. Why? Because expectations have changed. Do you not agree with that?

The higher the expectations of your team go, the more scrutiny. That has always been the nature of sport.
Your agenda is pretty clear. You are in a very small minority of Browns fans that hate Baker Mayfield. You are the one that cherry picked negative things, not me. All I did was point out to you how ludicrous your posting was by showing the other side of the equation which you have absolutely no interest in acknowledging.

Mayfield's offense amassed 500 yards on Sunday and they did so without a turnover. Oh yeah. and the team scored 42 points. So let's all bash him because some asshole with an agenda by the name of Burns says...blah. blah, blah.

The fact is this team would be 5-0 if the punter doesn't drop a snap and the officials don't make a horrendous PI call. 5-0. And if they were 5-0 you would still be bitching about our quarterback.

Bellyache all you want. I'm loving what I'm seeing.
 

CBBI

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Your agenda is pretty clear. You are in a very small minority of Browns fans that hate Baker Mayfield. You are the one that cherry picked negative things, not me. All I did was point out to you how ludicrous your posting was by showing the other side of the equation which you have absolutely no interest in acknowledging.

Mayfield's offense amassed 500 yards on Sunday and they did so without a turnover. Oh yeah. and the team scored 42 points. So let's all bash him because some asshole with an agenda by the name of Burns says...blah. blah, blah.

The fact is this team would be 5-0 if the punter doesn't drop a snap and the officials don't make a horrendous PI call. 5-0. And if they were 5-0 you would still be bitching about our quarterback.

Bellyache all you want. I'm loving what I'm seeing.

You call yourself thestatman, eh?

I’m skeptical.
 

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