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Bias in Media and Fake News

Is the media biased?


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CleveRocks

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Given the amount of promises (winning! bringing back jobs! everything will be unbelievable!) is it your opinion that conservatives did not elect Donald Trump? And if so, how do we categorize his voter-base?

Obviously Trump isn't in line with the traditional view of a conservative, but neither were the neo-cons that ran the country in the aughts.
Do you view a job opportunity as a gift?
 

-Akronite-

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Do you view a job opportunity as a gift?
When it's a baseless promise? Yes. I don't see a big separation between the appeals "I'll bring you jobs that will give you healthcare and education opportunities" and "I'll bring government guaranteed healthcare and education opportunities."

It's still a chicken in every pot, no?
 

Cavatt

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What if it was the conservative ideology that dominated tech and they were censoring liberal ideas and shadow banning liberal personalities under the guise of "disinformation" that they and only they get to define. Would you be happy in this circumstance?
Conservative ideology dominates the news. You are less likely to hear socialist ideas than tax cuts. Military spending isn't discussed because it is a foregone conclusion.

It's not under the guise of misinformation it is misinformation. Fox news the highest rated news on cable has been proven over and over to have the least accurate content. No reason Google needs to promote actual propaganda.

Read the Mueller report. It illustrates how Russian propaganda was spread by conservative media.

Conservatives hate America and don't want anyone without wealth to have any impact. Look at how they ridicule AOC being working class. If you aren't Meagan Mcain whose family made their money a long time ago on the backs of slaves, you shouldn't have a place at the table. Conservatives routinely attack elites while Mitt Romney and Mitch McConnell sit on hundreds of millions while our guy in the White House champion of the working class has a literal golden toilet seat and maybe a Billion bucks.

You can continue to tell me that welfare to the richest people creates jobs or we can look at the actual evidence that says this has been an abject failure and the media is still championing billionaires and hundred millionaires that have stole our wealth for many decades.
 

Cavatt

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Do you view a job opportunity as a gift?
Job growth has slowed due to tariffs and poor economic policy.

Wage growth has been so poor for decades despite "job creators" being given more to work with in terms of capital than ever before in history. Corporations have more cash on hand than ever before and now also own more family homes than individuals for the first time. So, yeah there are plenty of jobs, gig jobs where you need 2 or 3 to pay the rent, but the ones where you can afford a home are getting scarcer and scarcer. Homes are 10 to 30 times what your generation paid.
 
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pr26

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What if it was the conservative ideology that dominated tech and they were censoring liberal ideas and shadow banning liberal personalities under the guise of "disinformation" that they and only they get to define. Would you be happy in this circumstance?
If it was proven liberal personalities on any given tech platform were found to be purposefully spreading disinformation and fabricating evidence, which in turn they present as fact? Yeah, I’m fine with that tech platform saying there’s no room at the inn for you here.

Project Veritas isn’t a conservative fact finder, they are a scam. Conservatives shouldn’t choose to die on that hill, IMO. If you have other examples that aren’t Project Veritas or Alex Jones, I’d be happy to keep an open mind and discuss.
 

TyGuy

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Attacking the source and not the argument is a fallacy. We have video footage of a google exec admitting to attempting social engineering, we have leaked emails of developing algorithms to shadow ban content they disagree with, and we want to talk about the source???

This is Orwellian, full stop.
 

-Akronite-

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What if it was the conservative ideology that dominated tech and they were censoring liberal ideas and shadow banning liberal personalities under the guise of "disinformation" that they and only they get to define. Would you be happy in this circumstance?
You're painting a very black and white picture here with what seem like assumptions. Can you cite an instance where a major social media platform censored or shadow banned someone simply for promoting conservative ideas? Because in the instances where I have seen this claim, it's usually someone that crossed objective lines rather than simply stating political opinions.

"Hate speech" and "disinformation" are intentionally very vague terms used to silence ideas of people you disagree with. Who are the fascists again? It's unbelievable to me that we are not only hand waiving corporate social engineering, but applauding it. This is truly Orwellian.
It's interesting to me how a lot of conservative minds claim to be all about free market and letting corporations control our lives... Until it affects their clicks. Then the corporations become bad again.

Hate speech and disinformation are broad terms which is why this isn't an easy issue to deal with.
 

CleveRocks

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When it's a baseless promise? Yes. I don't see a big separation between the appeals "I'll bring you jobs that will give you healthcare and education opportunities" and "I'll bring government guaranteed healthcare and education opportunities."

It's still a chicken in every pot, no?
Nope, it is not. A job is a fair opportunity to support yourself. It's not a take from the rich and give to the poor argument..

We let the high value jobs walk to China without batting a political eye, and that was on both parties..We gutted our own middle class, and there was a price for that. We pretended that the offshore economies were equivalent to our own free society, which was a terrible mistake. Had we simply done NAFTA, and not totally globalized, I would argue that Mexico and her nieghbors would be a whole lot better off.

And promised or not, the jobs are back. A lot of people arguing that had nothing to do with Trump. But his base will give him that credit. There has not been a job market this good for lower and middle class of all colors in my lifetime. Is that an accident? I don't think so..

It certainly had nothing to do with any policy articulated by Warren..
 

-Akronite-

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We have a White House that presents alternative facts, tells us that the truth isn't truth, and lies every fucking day about easily verifiable stuff (DAY ONE they lied about the inauguration crowd size). Banning known propagandists is not nearly as Orwellian, even if I see good reason for concern (slippery slope, which is a fallacy).
 

CleveRocks

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You're painting a very black and white picture here with what seem like assumptions. Can you cite an instance where a major social media platform censored or shadow banned someone simply for promoting conservative ideas? Because in the instances where I have seen this claim, it's usually someone that crossed objective lines rather than simply stating political opinions.



It's interesting to me how a lot of conservative minds claim to be all about free market and letting corporations control our lives... Until it affects their clicks. Then the corporations become bad again.

Hate speech and disinformation are broad terms which is why this isn't an easy issue to deal with.
Most conservatives distrust big corporations as much as the government.. they both have the same problem.. money corrupts..
 

TyGuy

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I didn't say the argument was false because of the use of a fallacy. I said the use of a fallacy to counter the argument already made was inadequate. Yeah, using a fallacy doesn't mean his argument is wrong, but it also doesn't make it right.

The point still stands that we have video footage of google execs admitting to social engineering, admitting to shadow banning, and we want to discredit the source, or hand-wave instead. Unbelievable.
 
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TyGuy

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Good ideas should be up to the people to decide, not google. I can't believe democrats are okay with a large corporation being the gatekeepers to our society. Google knows whats good for us! Let's let them define hate speech and disinformation and only allow people to access the stuff we deem appropriate.

Orwellian
 

CleveRocks

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I didn't say the argument was false because of the use of a fallacy. I said the use of a fallacy to counter the argument already made was inadequate. Yeah, using a fallacy doesn't mean his argument is wrong, but it also doesn't make it right.

The point still stands that we have video footage of google execs admitting to social engineering, admitting to shadow banning and we want to discredit the source, or hand-wave instead instead. Unbelievable.
This was all anticipated by A BRAVE NEW WORLD. In 1934.. Power draws people who would use it.
 

-Akronite-

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Nope, it is not. A job is a fair opportunity to support yourself. It's not a take from the rich and give to the poor argument..
Well paying taxes into a system that covers healthcare universally isn't just some Robin Hood shit either. We'd still have to pitch in.

Regardless conservatives lay the burden of the poor and the oppressed on the poor and the oppressed, pretty consistently. And Trump made lots of promises about how he'd improve the lives of his voters, and there were plenty of working class people that fell for it.

We let the high value jobs walk to China without batting a political eye, and that was on both parties..We gutted our own middle class, and there was a price for that. We pretended that the offshore economies were equivalent to our own free society, which was a terrible mistake. Had we simply done NAFTA, and not totally globalized, I would argue that Mexico and her nieghbors would be a whole lot better off.
Meanwhile, the rich have gotten incredibly richer... The same guys who decided to ship all those jobs off... Even if we could bring back manufacturing to past levels, that isn't sustainable economically or environmentally.

And promised or not, the jobs are back.
What the hell are you talking about?

A lot of people arguing that had nothing to do with Trump. But his base will give him that credit. There has not been a job market this good for lower and middle class of all colors in my lifetime. Is that an accident? I don't think so..

It certainly had nothing to do with any policy articulated by Warren..
Oh you mean unemployment is low (not that same as many of his promises). And while unemployment has continued to lower into Trump's presidency, are we seeing a resurgence of the middle class? The answer is no. We have a generation saddled with debt, low opportunity for home ownership, and an accident/illness away from financial ruin. No policy articulated by Trump (a stretch to say he's every articulated anything) addresses these concerns.

Good ideas should be up to the people to decide, not google. I can't believe democrats are okay with a large corporation being the gatekeepers to our society. Google knows whats good for us! Let's let them define hate speech and disinformation and only allow people to access the stuff we deem appropriate.

Orwellian
Again, I see the concern here in terms of a slippery slope. Can you reference any instances where someone was treated unfairly because of a simple political difference?

Much of the discussion by the president and his supporters about these issues are filled with disinformation, by the way. What about the threats from countries like Russia? Is it social engineering to fight that?
 

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