Brittney Griner

Do Not Sell My Personal Information

David.

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I think many of our points is while its not fair by the standards we are used to, the fact that so many act like America can do anything beyond the negotiating they are doing is ridiculous. Russia is a sovereign country, we have no control over their laws, just or not. What people are saying is that if it wasnt for the fact that Griner is a famous American athlete, we would know nothing about the case. The other prisoner that we are trying to free has been in the jail longer and only know of him because Brittney made a mistake.

Basically when traveling abroad, be careful, your American rights dont follow you.
I don't think Anyone is confused she broke a law in a foreign country man. Goes without saying, everyone has heard the story for months now. We get it.what "fair" is could be an entire philosophical thread all on its own. women getting beheaded in the middle east as punishment for getting raped is the law, it's also fucking moronic and I wouldn't call it "fair"

9 years for having a non traffickable amount of weed is tragic and inhumane and they likely are enforcing a decade long penalty to get an arms dealer free.
 
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CavsFaninNJ

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Bologna. She said she inadvertently packed them and didn’t mean to break the law.
She knew damn well she packed that crap. She’s full of crap just like Watson was when he said he sis nothing wrong. She’s no smarter than the idiots who take guns to an airport and pack those.
People also need to quit talking about her being black and gay. No of that matters just more BS.
Media loves to stir shit up.
Anyone will say it was a mistake for mercy from the court, that's just sound legal strategy - so we have no idea whether she knew or not. I don't know how anyone could claim to know. She very well could have said "they won't notice, and I really want to vape when I touch down". We don't know.

Does her being black and gay and a woman have anything to do with how she is treated by Russia? Probably not, IMO. I don't know the internal politics enough to know if that would sway anything with how they need to play this - but I doubt it's a bigger factor than all other sorts of internal calculations - proving that everyone has to obey the same laws, proving that US citizens must also obey those laws, doing a prisoner swap, whatever else.

But does her identity have anything to do with the discourse here? I think so.
 

Jack Brickman

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Who the fuck cares about an arms dealer anyway? The weapons he sells are unlikely to ever impact any of us. We're far more likely to get shot by someone who buys their guns in this country.
 

Bob_The_Cat

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Anyone will say it was a mistake for mercy from the court, that's just sound legal strategy - so we have no idea whether she knew or not. I don't know how anyone could claim to know. She very well could have said "they won't notice, and I really want to vape when I touch down". We don't know.

Does her being black and gay and a woman have anything to do with how she is treated by Russia? Probably not, IMO. I don't know the internal politics enough to know if that would sway anything with how they need to play this - but I doubt it's a bigger factor than all other sorts of internal calculations - proving that everyone has to obey the same laws, proving that US citizens must also obey those laws, doing a prisoner swap, whatever else.

But does her identity have anything to do with the discourse here? I think so.

Really? Her identity has everything to do with what’s happening. Black, Queer, American, Olympic Champion, most recognizable women’s basketball player. The timing of the war in Russia certainly doesn’t help either.

If the same thing happened to your average American, they either would’ve been deported or stuck in jail and that’s about it. The US government isn’t going to negotiate an exchange for Joe Schmo citizen that gets arrested in a foreign country.

The USA has one 1,060 Gold Medals in the Summer Olympics. Any country, especially Russia, is going to make a big deal about a United States Olympic gold medal winner committing a crime.
 

Sebastian

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Does her being black and gay and a woman have anything to do with how she is treated by Russia? Probably not, IMO.

But does her identity have anything to do with the discourse here? I think so.
Putin is notoriously homophobic and Russia is the worst place in Europe to be gay in. This is pretty common knowledge.

LGBT people in Russia are frequently murdered without the state caring.

Various groups offer cash bounties to kill gay men and rape lesbians with the police turning a blind eye.

In some provinces the death penalty, usually by medieval methods like castration or being set on fire, is prescribed for anyone that is caught that is even accused of being gay.

To be gay and be sent to prison in Russia is often a death sentence where one can expect to be killed in a gruesome manner. Though it might be a little less lethal for women and it is likely Ms. Griner has protection (one cannot exchange a corpse).

So, I should think it might play a role in how her case has been handled and portrayed in Russia as part of a narrative of US cultural imperialism, which is a big talking point for Putin on how the West pollutes Russian Orthodox culture with perverted, degenerate liberal values. Russian media itself makes a great deal out her being a lesbian and part of their case that she should receive severe treatment.

It surprises me this rather glaring happenstance has not registered in people's calculations of this case. Though some domestic media outlets are not more disposed to feel more sympathy for her on that account and agree with Russia's LGBT policy.
 

CuriousMinds

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I’ve watched too many Locked up abroad to know that some of these countries are still in the dark ages regarding any drug, no matter it’s medical benefits.

Griner HAD to be informed of the drugs laws in Russia, the WNBA ain’t stupid; protect their star player.

The merchant of death exchanged for a WNBA player, isn’t this country fed up with guns on the street? It’s like when we made trade partners for Beau Bergdahl; it ain’t going to end well.
 

David.

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Do you think the dealer gets back into the game at this point?

Do you think the the buyers aren't already getting guns elsewhere?

Sincerely asking, wonder what the actual repercussions are that were looking at
 

CuriousMinds

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Sincerely asking, wonder what the actual repercussions are that were looking at

unknown currently, but given that the gentlemen exchanged for Bergdahl have senior posts in the new Afghan govt; I'd bet the Merchant of Death will be back in biz....

Hasn't anyone seen Diehard 2????? :)
 

HammerGold

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Trading the merchant of death for Griner is woefully imbalanced. She messed up, you don't break the laws of a hostile foreign government no matter how dumb they are. Her bed, time to lie in it.
 

Lee

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Trading the merchant of death for Griner is woefully imbalanced. She messed up, you don't break the laws of a hostile foreign government no matter how dumb they are. Her bed, time to lie in it.

The trade has already been proposed, Russia wants people in European jails on top of the Merhant of Death, we have to negotiate with other countries. This isnt on Biden, he actually offered up a very unbalance trade for Griner and the Journalist.
 

Sebastian

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The trade has already been proposed, Russia wants people in European jails on top of the Merhant of Death, we have to negotiate with other countries. This isnt on Biden, he actually offered up a very unbalance trade for Griner and the Journalist.
The problem is that it will always be unbalanced. We care about our people, they don't.

If they did, they wouldn't have sent a bunch of untrained kids into the meat grinder, left to rot where they fall.

There other issue with Griner, and I am surprised people don't get this, but what she may, or may not have done, is besides the point. She could have jaywalked and they would have thrown the book at her. If they really wanted her they wouldn't even need an actual instance of a crime, they'd just make something up. Having watched the coverage about her on some very different media, it is very, super clear, that some are going out of their way to excuse the Russians for this. "She broke their laws." That is incidental. Otto Warmbier "broke" the law too. I guess he deserved his fate as well even if it was most unwise to even travel to North Korea. They're called pawns for a reason.

Its not about her. Not really. Moreover, I find the response to her on assorted media seems to dwell a good deal on whether they agree with her opinions or not.

That said, I don't mean you, but I find some of the responses by the talking heads to her predicament odd. As if our concern for a fellow citizen hinges solely on whether we agree with their opinions. What a queer species of patriotism. I should let my brother officers in Army know that we actually only have to defend people we like.
 

Sebastian

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Do you think the dealer gets back into the game at this point?

Do you think the the buyers aren't already getting guns elsewhere?

Sincerely asking, wonder what the actual repercussions are that were looking at
His ability to get right back into the business depends on whether the Russians murder him anyway, because he probably talked during his captivity and as a former asset of the SVR and GRU that just won't do, or let him be if they feel he didn't talk.

They'll either plug him right back in, though it may take time for him to get back to his preeminence, or retire him.

So we'll see.
 

HammerGold

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The problem is that it will always be unbalanced. We care about our people, they don't.

If they did, they wouldn't have sent a bunch of untrained kids into the meat grinder, left to rot where they fall.

There other issue with Griner, and I am surprised people don't get this, but what she may, or may not have done, is besides the point. She could have jaywalked and they would have thrown the book at her. If they really wanted her they wouldn't even need an actual instance of a crime, they'd just make something up. Having watched the coverage about her on some very different media, it is very, super clear, that some are going out of their way to excuse the Russians for this. "She broke their laws." That is incidental. Otto Warmbier "broke" the law too. I guess he deserved his fate as well even if it was most unwise to even travel to North Korea. They're called pawns for a reason.

Its not about her. Not really. Moreover, I find the response to her on assorted media seems to dwell a good deal on whether they agree with her opinions or not.

That said, I don't mean you, but I find some of the responses by the talking heads to her predicament odd. As if our concern for a fellow citizen hinges solely on whether we agree with their opinions. What a queer species of patriotism. I should let my brother officers in Army know that we actually only have to defend people we like.
Russia isn't quite NK. And the thing is, Russia didn't make some up. She gave them a reason. They punish their own citizens harshly for drug possession, let alone a foreigner they probably don't like. Of course 9 years isn't just, but she's also very dumb for putting herself in that situation.
 

The Human Q-Tip

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The amount of citizens in this thread that would comply with authorities no matter what is chilling to me.

No matter what? No.

But when you choose to travel to a country hostile to our own, with a known corrupt legal system and habit of holding Americans unfairly...then yes. That's just common sense. And if you don't, it is your own stupid fault.

If you plan on not complying with the laws of a foreign country that penize such conduct harshly, then the common-sense approach is to just not go at all.

It's kind of like that dumbass guy who decided that stealing street signs in Singapore was a good idea. When it was learned that a good ass-whooping - quite literally - was the prescribed punishment, we were all supposed to feel sorry for him.

I suspect they caned most of the dumbass out of him.
 

The Human Q-Tip

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Putin is notoriously homophobic and Russia is the worst place in Europe to be gay in. This is pretty common knowledge.

LGBT people in Russia are frequently murdered without the state caring.

Various groups offer cash bounties to kill gay men and rape lesbians with the police turning a blind eye.

In some provinces the death penalty, usually by medieval methods like castration or being set on fire, is prescribed for anyone that is caught that is even accused of being gay.

To be gay and be sent to prison in Russia is often a death sentence where one can expect to be killed in a gruesome manner. Though it might be a little less lethal for women and it is likely Ms. Griner has protection (one cannot exchange a corpse).

So, I should think it might play a role in how her case has been handled and portrayed in Russia as part of a narrative of US cultural imperialism, which is a big talking point for Putin on how the West pollutes Russian Orthodox culture with perverted, degenerate liberal values. Russian media itself makes a great deal out her being a lesbian and part of their case that she should receive severe treatment.

It surprises me this rather glaring happenstance has not registered in people's calculations of this case. Though some domestic media outlets are not more disposed to feel more sympathy for her on that account and agree with Russia's LGBT policy.

I just think it is more the fact that she is 1) well-known, and 2) the war in Ukraine and U.S.-built weapons killing Russians. I suspect that if this was any time other than the war, she'd have been released after some minor diplomatic wrangling. Because normally, the Russians would want to be seen as respecting a foreign Olympian, gay or not.

But with the war, the Russians are eager to get any bit of leverage against the U.S. that they can.

That's my opinion, anyway. Poor Marc Fogel was arrested for pot long before Griner, and he's not even in the discussions to get released at all.
 
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