Browns 2021 Off-Season Thread

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What Position Should the Browns Focus On Improving?

  • Wide Receiver

    Votes: 6 4.8%
  • Defensive End/Edge

    Votes: 45 36.3%
  • Defensive Tackle

    Votes: 13 10.5%
  • Cornerbacks!

    Votes: 14 11.3%
  • Safeties

    Votes: 14 11.3%
  • DBs in General

    Votes: 57 46.0%
  • Linebacker Corps

    Votes: 67 54.0%
  • Leg-Related Special Teams Personnel

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Maine Coon

    Votes: 5 4.0%
  • Norwegian Forest Cat

    Votes: 3 2.4%

  • Total voters
    124

Cassity14

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Also buried in the article:

The Browns have said they’re counting on Williams to start opposite Ward again this season, and share the defensive backfield again with Delpit, who’s making great strides in his comeback from the Achilles surgery.

I found this interesting, but also, what else would they say about their injured players without dumpstering their morale.

"Yeah, we're looking at new guys in the secondary bc we don't trust the kids to come back well."

Or "Anything they give us is a bonus!"

I don't think I going to read too much into a comment like that, especially to the press.
 

The Human Q-Tip

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I found this interesting, but also, what else would they say about their injured players without dumpstering their morale.

"Yeah, we're looking at new guys in the secondary bc we don't trust the kids to come back well."

Or "Anything they give us is a bonus!"

I don't think I going to read too much into a comment like that, especially to the press.

His shoulder maxing out at "80-90%" doesn't sound all that good. I'd also be curious if either 1) there is something structural in that shoulder that makes a recurrence more likely, and/or 2) whether re-injuring it is more likely regardless of structural issues because of the nature of the injury. Because even if he does return to the field, the real question is his durability/reliability moving forward.
 

macbdog

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Hooper wasn't terribly productive either. Our top three tight ends didn't even combine for a thousand yards, and it was one of our strongest position groups.

I just don't think our scheme is designed to get the ball to the TE most of the time, although we often seemed to rely on Njoku or Hooper when we needed a first down.
Austin Hooper was the Larry Hughes/Jack McDowell/Andre Rison of 2020.
 

Man Called X

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His shoulder maxing out at "80-90%" doesn't sound all that good. I'd also be curious if either 1) there is something structural in that shoulder that makes a recurrence more likely, and/or 2) whether re-injuring it is more likely regardless of structural issues because of the nature of the injury. Because even if he does return to the field, the real question is his durability/reliability moving forward.
Nerve damage is weird. I've got two fingers on my left hand that are always slightly numb. The feeling might eventually come back, but it's doubtful. Sit on your hand until it goes numb. Now shake it around a bit, and while it's still just a bit tingly, but you have most control of your hand back. That's my ring and pinky finger on my left hand. All day long.

Back to drinking at the job because the boss is gone.
 

Chris

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Wouldnt count on greedy for anything at all. I actually feel way better about Delpit coming back and being a starter. Greedy has been out forever, and it doesn’t sound like he’s anywhere near over the hill on this thing at this point.
 

bob2the2nd

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Nerve damage is weird. I've got two fingers on my left hand that are always slightly numb. The feeling might eventually come back, but it's doubtful. Sit on your hand until it goes numb. Now shake it around a bit, and while it's still just a bit tingly, but you have most control of your hand back. That's my ring and pinky finger on my left hand. All day long.

Back to drinking at the job because the boss is gone.
i assume that first statement isnt at all related to the second statement and work place accidents?
 

Man Called X

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i assume that 2nd statement isnt at all related to the first statement?
No, after 7 or so years, I'm pretty much used to the numbness. I was just gonna daydrink because it's incredibly boring and I'll be lucky to see more than 2 people all day.

*Eat that ass* I've never been hurt at work unless you count shrapnel.
 

col63onel

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Austin Hooper was the Larry Hughes/Jack McDowell/Andre Rison of 2020.
The fanbase's evaluations of Landry vs Hooper are puzzling to me.

Landry never made the playoffs in Miami. He's overpaid for his production. In the 3 years he's been here, the Browns have had 4 head coaches and 2 GMs. However, he's invaluable because he "changed the culture".

Hooper twice went to the playoffs in Atlanta, including a SB appearance. He's overpaid for his production. But in his first year, the Browns make the playoffs and win a road playoff game.

Based on that, who's the culture changer? I would argue neither are, because Berry/Stefanski/Baker are, but based on the evidence we have, I don't see how Landry is and Hooper isn't.

And the other thing: Landry is probably more overpaid than Hooper is. Landry's current OTC market value is 8.3mil. His cap numbers for 2020-2022 are 14.5, 14,7 and 16.6. So right now, he's overpaid by about 6.2 mil, and that will only get worse unless he starts playing better.

Hooper's current market value is 6.9. His cap numbers, starting in 2020 are 4mil, 8.2, 13.2, 13.2. So this year he was actually a bargain by 3 mil, and next year he's only 1.3mil on the bad side. His cap number becomes 6.3mil too high...but that's essentially what Jarvis is RIGHT NOW.

So I don't really get how Hooper is a bad signing but Jarvis isn't (and Jarvis cost a 4th round pick).
 

AllforOne

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Nerve damage is weird. I've got two fingers on my left hand that are always slightly numb. The feeling might eventually come back, but it's doubtful. Sit on your hand until it goes numb. Now shake it around a bit, and while it's still just a bit tingly, but you have most control of your hand back. That's my ring and pinky finger on my left hand. All day long.
I can relate. Years ago, I herniated two discs in my lower back so badly that they were compressing the spinal nerves. (Which, BTW, is like no other pain I’ve ever experienced. Imagine the inside of your legs on fire, with no way to put it out.).

I had surgery within days, but never regained full feeling in my legs (specifically the backs of my upper legs into the glutes). It doesn’t affect my range of motion, ability to walk or run, etc. It’s not like there are things I could do before that I can’t do now. It just feels a little different than pre-injury, if I stop to think about it.

I’d like to think that’s what Greedy’s “80-90%” will be. Full range of motion, can do anything that he did before, just with a small loss of feeling.
 

Out of the Rafters at the Q

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The fanbase's evaluations of Landry vs Hooper are puzzling to me.

Landry never made the playoffs in Miami. He's overpaid for his production. In the 3 years he's been here, the Browns have had 4 head coaches and 2 GMs. However, he's invaluable because he "changed the culture".

Hooper twice went to the playoffs in Atlanta, including a SB appearance. He's overpaid for his production. But in his first year, the Browns make the playoffs and win a road playoff game.

Based on that, who's the culture changer? I would argue neither are, because Berry/Stefanski/Baker are, but based on the evidence we have, I don't see how Landry is and Hooper isn't.

And the other thing: Landry is probably more overpaid than Hooper is. Landry's current OTC market value is 8.3mil. His cap numbers for 2020-2022 are 14.5, 14,7 and 16.6. So right now, he's overpaid by about 6.2 mil, and that will only get worse unless he starts playing better.

Hooper's current market value is 6.9. His cap numbers, starting in 2020 are 4mil, 8.2, 13.2, 13.2. So this year he was actually a bargain by 3 mil, and next year he's only 1.3mil on the bad side. His cap number becomes 6.3mil too high...but that's essentially what Jarvis is RIGHT NOW.

So I don't really get how Hooper is a bad signing but Jarvis isn't (and Jarvis cost a 4th round pick).
... you're not serious about this, are you?

That the team making the playoffs this year somehow means Austin Hooper is a culture-changing piece?

Because, you don't seem that foolish.

You want to argue that Landry is overpaid? Go for it. I agree with you. You want to argue that, relative to how bad the tight end position is in the NFL, Hooper isn't that terrible of a contract? Go for it. But the loose-at-best correlation being used to generate personal attributes is a pretty poor argument.

To take it at face value, Jarvis Landry might be an important culture piece because he's an outspoken hard-worker who seems to motivate those around him. He embodies the sort of work effort you want your team to have, and we've seen that through many lenses, including on-field, social media, Behind the Browns, and Hard Knocks.

Austin Hooper isn't regarded as a culture piece because he has never shown any reason to assign those attributes to him.
 

col63onel

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... you're not serious about this, are you?

That the team making the playoffs this year somehow means Austin Hooper is a culture-changing piece?

Because, you don't seem that foolish.

You want to argue that Landry is overpaid? Go for it. I agree with you. You want to argue that, relative to how bad the tight end position is in the NFL, Hooper isn't that terrible of a contract? Go for it. But the loose-at-best correlation being used to generate personal attributes is a pretty poor argument.
No, I said this
Based on that, who's the culture changer? I would argue neither are, because Berry/Stefanski/Baker are, but based on the evidence we have, I don't see how Landry is and Hooper isn't.
I don't think either Landry or Hooper are. But I don't see any argument where Jarvis is and Hooper isn't. What evidence is there that Jarvis changed the culture?

Hooper has the argument that he's been on winning teams for most of his pro career. If you think that's not a strong argument, that's fine, is still more of an argument than Jarvis does.

edit -
To take it at face value, Jarvis Landry might be an important culture piece because he's an outspoken hard-worker who seems to motivate those around him. He embodies the sort of work effort you want your team to have, and we've seen that through many lenses, including on-field, social media, Behind the Browns, and Hard Knocks.

And I don't buy this argument, because people have been saying this since Hard Knocks. And we were still dysfunctional for 2 years. I don't get how you can consider him changing the culture when the culture didn't change until other very drastic changes not involving him occured.
 

Out of the Rafters at the Q

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No, I said this

I don't think either Landry or Hooper are. But I don't see any argument where Jarvis is and Hooper isn't. What evidence is there that Jarvis changed the culture?

Hooper has the argument that he's been on winning teams for most of his pro career. If you think that's not a strong argument, that's fine, is still more of an argument than Jarvis does.

Jarvis Landry might be an important culture piece because he's an outspoken hard-worker who seems to motivate those around him. He embodies the sort of work effort you want your team to have, and we've seen that through many lenses, including on-field, social media, Behind the Browns, and Hard Knocks.

Austin Hooper isn't regarded as a culture piece because he has never shown any reason to assign those attributes to him.
Arguing that team results mean individual attributes isn't going to lead anywhere. That's a non-starter.
 

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