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Browns 2021 Off-Season Thread

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What Position Should the Browns Focus On Improving?

  • Wide Receiver

    Votes: 6 4.5%
  • Defensive End/Edge

    Votes: 47 35.6%
  • Defensive Tackle

    Votes: 14 10.6%
  • Cornerbacks!

    Votes: 14 10.6%
  • Safeties

    Votes: 14 10.6%
  • DBs in General

    Votes: 59 44.7%
  • Linebacker Corps

    Votes: 70 53.0%
  • Leg-Related Special Teams Personnel

    Votes: 3 2.3%
  • Maine Coon

    Votes: 6 4.5%
  • Norwegian Forest Cat

    Votes: 5 3.8%

  • Total voters
    132
Arguing that team results mean individual attributes isn't going to lead anywhere. That's a non-starter.
no no. lets roll with it

in the 3 years before Landry showed up the browns had a total of 4 wins.

in the 3 years since the browns signed landry the browns have 24 wins.

Clearly Landry is the difference to this team :chuckle:

@col63onel
 
no no. lets roll with it

in the 3 years before Landry showed up the browns had a total of 4 wins.

in the 3 years since the browns signed landry the browns have 24 wins.

Clearly Landry is the difference to this team :chuckle:

@col63onel
In the 39 years before Hooper showed up, Browns had 0 playoff road wins.

In 1 year with him, they have 1.

edit -

Hell, in the 2 years prior to Hooper, but with Jarvis, Browns had 13 wins.

In 1 year with Hooper, 12 wins.
 
In the 39 years before Hooper showed up, Browns had 0 playoff road wins.

In 1 year with him, they have 1.

edit -

Hell, in the 2 years prior to Hooper, but with Jarvis, Browns had 13 wins.

In 1 year with Hooper, 12 wins.

Yes you are completely correct, the browns should cut landry and give Hooper more money, because clearly its him that is the difference maker to this team.
 
@col63onel had his point made for him lol.

Landry, for whatever reason, is held in some rarified air where stats don't mean a whole lot when it comes to his contract. How dare he be compared to the albatross of Austin Hooper.
 
Nerve damage is weird. I've got two fingers on my left hand that are always slightly numb. The feeling might eventually come back, but it's doubtful. Sit on your hand until it goes numb. Now shake it around a bit, and while it's still just a bit tingly, but you have most control of your hand back. That's my ring and pinky finger on my left hand. All day long.

Back to drinking at the job because the boss is gone.

Numb fingers on your off hand? I am jealous, its easy for you to do the stranger.
 
Numb fingers on your off hand? I am jealous, its easy for you to do the stranger.
Unfortunately it also means I lack a significant amount of strength in my grip with that hand.
 
So the argument for Landry being a culture changer is...what? Speeches on edited documentary series?
Well that's part of it. I would say the work ethic he shows, and distills in others would be the primary piece. I'd argue that his positivity and encouragement on game day would be another component. Like I said twice already:

Jarvis Landry might be an important culture piece because he's an outspoken hard-worker who seems to motivate those around him. He embodies the sort of work effort you want your team to have, and we've seen that through many lenses, including on-field, social media, Behind the Browns, and Hard Knocks.

If you want to argue that Landry isn't a culture changer, go for it. I think that's a viable argument. To anyone who's claiming Landry is a "culture changer," I want to know why they don't bring up Joel Bitonio in the same way, because I see the exact same characteristics out of Bitonio, just without the loud social media component.

To be clear, my current opinion is that even if Jarvis Landry had an impact on this team's culture that led to our current level of success, that attribute is unnecessary, replaceable, or both moving forward. Landry is certainly overpaid, and when it comes time to renegotiatie, if he wants to stay here, it should be at a lower dollar amount. Heck, if you wanted to go so far as to say that Landry's deal is more overpaid compared to wide receivers around the league than Hooper's is compared to tight ends, I'd buy that argument. But then I'd also argue that instead of paying people based on how good or bad the position is around the league, we should pay people based on what they bring to the field. Just because I have Hooper somewhere around the #10 tight end in the league doesn't mean he contributes as much to winning as the #30 WR. I'd argue that tight end is a place to save money, so you can spend on a position group that matters, like the offensive line.

But when you try and say that Austin Hooper has the exact same amount of credentials on this topic as, if not more than, Jarvis Landry, you lose me. People have told you the reasons they might consider Landry to be a "culture changer" but you haven't shown any individual characteristics of Austin Hooper to apply the same attributes to him.

You want to talk about a straw man? How about your straw man argument regarding team accolades:

"Landry never made the playoffs in Miami. He's overpaid for his production. In the 3 years he's been here, the Browns have had 4 head coaches and 2 GMs. However, he's invaluable because he "changed the culture".

Hooper twice went to the playoffs in Atlanta, including a SB appearance. He's overpaid for his production. But in his first year, the Browns make the playoffs and win a road playoff game."
 
Last edited:
People have told you the reasons they might consider Landry to be a "culture changer"
That's the rub I guess. I still don't think Jarvis brings any intangibles that you can find in multiple guys on the vast majority of rosters.

edit -

but you haven't shown any individual characteristics of Austin Hooper to apply the same attributes to him.

I said I don't think Hooper is a culture changer, but I could certainly argue someone with postseason experience on a roster full of players with no postseason experience is as valuable a commodity as being a hard worker or good motivator. Everyone in the NFL who sticks around for more than 5 minutes has a good work ethic and can motivate themselves. But not everyone has postseason experience, until they do.
 
That's the rub I guess. I still don't think Jarvis brings any intangibles that you can find in multiple guys on the vast majority of rosters.
I agree. I'd go so far as to say that not only are guys like Bitonio and Tretter more important leaders on the team, but Landry's act is more likely to get stale as time progresses.

Moving forward, I lean with the side against Landry at his current valuation.

Looking back, I'm not sure we are where we are without him. I could easily see a timeline where not having Jarvis on the team leads to a less successful rookie year from Baker, not trading for OBJ (whether that's good or bad, I still doubt we get him if we don't already have Landry), signing a key free agent like Sheldon Richardson or Kareem Hunt... all that could lead to a situation where Stefanski isn't our coach, or Berry isn't our GM, or Haslam loses faith in DePo and cans him...

As stingy as I like to be protecting money in the NFL's rollover environment, and as critical of Dorsey as I am, I think the Landry trade and signing has worked out for us so far. We're in a good place, and I'm not certain we'd be here without him.
 
That's the rub I guess. I still don't think Jarvis brings any intangibles that you can find in multiple guys on the vast majority of rosters.

edit -



I said I don't think Hooper is a culture changer, but I could certainly argue someone with postseason experience on a roster full of players with no postseason experience is as valuable a commodity as being a hard worker or good motivator. Everyone in the NFL who sticks around for more than 5 minutes has a good work ethic and can motivate themselves. But not everyone has postseason experience, until they do.
It's hard for us as fans to properly measure anything when we're not in the locker room. I can say this, though:

Jarvis seems to have the respect of his teammates and is an outspoken leader on this team. The entire vibe/energy surrounding Landry's leadership and "culture-changing" qualities cannot be attributed to just a single Hard Knocks clip. And I don't think you can simply dismiss that as being the sole reason why fans tend to think he played a role in changing our team's culture.

From my perspective - it's the culmination of his interviews, tweets, and both on/off field energy/demeanor that tells me he has been a culture-changer for us. When our coaches, players, AND media are praising his leadership and role in the transformation in our culture, I don't think we can sit here and pretend like it doesn't matter. Has he been THE culture changer? Lol no, not even close. But he has played a role in it.

I think there's room for admitting that yes, while Landry is overpaid and will likely need to take a pay cut to remain with the team, he has helped to put this "dawg-mentality" in the national spotlight and energize a fanbase following the 1-31 catastrophe.
 
Jarvis is definitely one of the leaders on this team and Stefanski has said as much. I think when you compare what the situation was before he got traded to what it is now, it's easy to diminish his contributions but Landry was the one guy, in a long line of players that was traded or signed with the "same ole browns", but he immediately wanted this organization to get better.

You can't say that about hardly any of our "marquee signings" before that and that has always stuck with me. I think that attitude coupled with Baker's and establishing some trust between the two was tantamount to establishing a new identity for this team IN SPITE of all the FO misgivings and IMO, that was invaluable.

He might be an overpaid WR but he's OUR overpaid WR. He's not just a JAG.
 
I agree. I'd go so far as to say that not only are guys like Bitonio and Tretter more important leaders on the team, but Landry's act is more likely to get stale as time progresses.

Moving forward, I lean with the side against Landry at his current valuation.

Looking back, I'm not sure we are where we are without him. I could easily see a timeline where not having Jarvis on the team leads to a less successful rookie year from Baker, not trading for OBJ (whether that's good or bad, I still doubt we get him if we don't already have Landry), signing a key free agent like Sheldon Richardson or Kareem Hunt... all that could lead to a situation where Stefanski isn't our coach, or Berry isn't our GM, or Haslam loses faith in DePo and cans him...

As stingy as I like to be protecting money in the NFL's rollover environment, and as critical of Dorsey as I am, I think the Landry trade and signing has worked out for us so far. We're in a good place, and I'm not certain we'd be here without him.
to add I would say that there is absolutely no doubt the browns had to overpay to keep Landry. However, the browns were done hitting the reset button, they were about to draft their hopefully franchise QB, and they wanted to make sure they had receiving talent available. The browns overpaid to keep Landry because they NEEDED to keep him, furthermore at the time they HAD to spend money. I dont blame them for the contract what so ever, as it was designed so if the browns wanted to get out of it after 3 years (this offseason) it would be really easy to walk away from him.

So we are now in a place where the browns could cut landry and save 11 million in cap space next year. However the browns dont have anyone to replace him (as possession WR). As I have been saying for months now the browns need to be working with him to restructure his contract to save the team some money. The question is how much does Landry want. Over the cap estimates 8.5 which i assume is based on a lowered cap + Landry's production last year (2nd worst in his career). My ultimate opinion hasnt changed much since I first brought it up. Based on other contracts, and Landry's worth to the team he is worth 10-12 million. The question is can the browns get below that. How much does Landry like being here, how much does he really want to make, and how much money do the browns want to tie up in the receiving core. These are all questions that have unknown answers.
 

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