Browns best value acquisitions (Poll)

[Douglar]

Don't get me wrong, Chubb is definitely a valuable player on his contract. If the question was "Is Nick Chubb valuable" the answer would be "Yes". But we're talking "most valuable".

We are talking about who gives the best value / what the Browns gave up to get the player.. All the Browns had to do to get 4 years of Chubb was pay Osweiler's contract using money that they had to spend anyway. That's about the same amount that the team gave up to get Randall, who is also a talented player, but whose contract is only 1/2 as long.

And you are right that replacement running backs are cheap and a good offensive line can make an average running back look like a pro-bowler. But running backs that average 5 yards a carry with 4 of the yards coming after contact are rare beasts. He lets the Browns have a solid run attack without the team having a strong offensive line.

p.s. don't forget, 192 rushes, 0 fumbles

 

[col63onel]

And you are right that replacement running backs are cheap and a good offensive line can make an average running back look like a pro-bowler. But running backs that average 5 yards a carry with 4 of the yards coming after contact are rare beasts. He let's the Browns have a solid run attack without the team having a strong offensive line.

Certainly agree that Chubb is high value for a RB.

I look at it more in terms of WAR. If we replaced Chubb with a RB off the street, or replaced Ward with a RB off the street, which would be a bigger dropoff? To me, it's a bigger dropoff from Ward, both in terms of talent and impact on the team.

But the assets given up certainly swing in Chubbs favor. Chubbs 2nd rounder was basically free, asset wise. Of course Ward's first came from a trade down for Watson, so it wasn't expensive to get either. Do we factor in what else we could've drafted at each spot when determining value? Like does the fact that we've could've gotten a better player at #4 vs #33 make Chubb more valuable?

 

[Triplethreat]

Does the fact that Bradley Chubb look like a considerably better player than Ward thus far throughout their careers hurt his value?

 

[Douglar]

I look at it more in terms of WAR. If we replaced Chubb with a RB off the street, or replaced Ward with a RB off the street, which would be a bigger dropoff? To me, it's a bigger dropoff from Ward, both in terms of talent and impact on the team.

Chubb also forced the team to trade Carlos Hyde. Huge win for my eyeballs. Didn't have to watch the plodding lump hit the line every 3rd play.

This was kind of neat. Link: Browns players sorted by approximate value for 2018

I guess they do have Chubb kind of far down on the list, but he also only played about 10 games total.

Rk	Player	AV
1	Myles Garrett	14
2	Joel Bitonio	10
3	Baker Mayfield	10
4	Jamie Collins	9
5	Chris Hubbard	8
6	Larry Ogunjobi	8
7	Denzel Ward	8
8	Trevon Coley	7
9	Jarvis Landry	7
10	Emmanuel Ogbah	7
11	Joe Schobert	7
12	J.C. Tretter	7
13	Kevin Zeitler	7
14	Nick Chubb	6
15	Jabrill Peppers	6
16	Damarious Randall	6
17	David Njoku	5
18	Genard Avery	4
19	Antonio Callaway	4
20	T.J. Carrie	4

 

[Jordan]

Does the fact that Bradley Chubb look like a considerably better player than Ward thus far throughout their careers hurt his value?

But he doesn’t... Chubb looks like an outstanding secondary pass rusher. Ward is already a corner that can create an island. They’re both going to be successful professional players. I’d rather have Ward because I’m pretty convinced that corners are more important than edge players, but that’s neither here nor there.

 

[Kbiz]

Does the fact that Bradley Chubb look like a considerably better player than Ward thus far throughout their careers hurt his value?

We needed a lock down corner and we got one. Lock down corners are never going to have flashy stats so the considerably better argument is a bit hollow to me.

If Ward can stay healthy, he will be a top tier CB for many years.

 

[Ohio]

Does the fact that Bradley Chubb look like a considerably better player than Ward thus far throughout their careers hurt his value?

Lmao what type a shit?

In no world.

 

[AZ_]

Does the fact that Bradley Chubb look like a considerably better player than Ward thus far throughout their careers hurt his value?

Lmao what type a shit?

In no world.

 

[Triplethreat]

One guy can’t stay on the field and has already had 3 concussions and one guy almost broke the rookie sack record while recording 60 tackles.

I mean? Deluded to say the least.

 

[Jordan]

One guy can’t stay on the field and has already had 3 concussions and one guy almost broke the rookie sack record while recording 60 tackles.

I mean? Deluded to say the least.

When did he get a third concussion?

Ward changed his tackling form, never missed a game in college, and had two concussions last year - one of which was a freak injury. You sound like a guy blaming Kevin Love for getting his shoulder pulled out in 2015.

Also, not that you care about analytics, but most of the research suggests sacks are on a QB, not a pass rusher. Pressure comes from the pass rusher, and while Chubb is clearly a talented EDGE player, his pressure rate is merely good. Ward was in arguably a top-twelve corner in all of football last year.

I don’t know, man. I agree, Chubb is really fucking good and will be a talent for a long time, but when you talk about this like it is so clearly one way then it becomes easy to tune you out. Both guys are going to be Pro Bowlers for much of their careers. The Browns went with the guy at a position they find to be more valuable.

 

[Lee]

One guy can’t stay on the field and has already had 3 concussions and one guy almost broke the rookie sack record while recording 60 tackles.

I mean? Deluded to say the least.

Ward has had 2 concussions, his minor injury this pre-season was not head related.

And this is a senseless argument now, Besides Chubb was 14th in sacks, and Ward 18th in interceptions (5th among corners)

While those numbers are meaningless, as advanced metrics would have us compare pass rushes vs passing rating when thrown too. Both are very good.

PS, only Ward made the pro-bowl, Chubb was an alternate...although also meaningless, but stat wise Chubb isn't ahead, they are about even.

 

[AZ_]

Cue ‘gotta watch the games’ derp.

 

[Ohio]

Denzel makes a bigger impact at a more important position (CB1 is in-arguably more important than DE2) while also filling a bigger need.

Are we even sure Bradley Chubb is better than Olivier Vernon? Must be nice playing alongside Von Miller...we'll see how Vernon does alongside Garrett this year.

@Triplethreat is probably the only living organism outside of Denver that believes Chubb is better at all, let alone "considerably better." Woof.

Knowing what we know now, 32/32 GMs would take Ward over Chubb with the Browns' circumstance.

 

[Triplethreat]

Denzel makes a bigger impact at a more important position (CB1 is in-arguably more important than DE2) while also filling a bigger need.

Are we even sure Bradley Chubb is better than Olivier Vernon? Must be nice playing alongside Von Miller...we'll see how Vernon does alongside Garrett this year.

@Triplethreat is probably the only living organism outside of Denver that believes Chubb is better at all, let alone "considerably better." Woof.

Knowing what we know now, 32/32 GMs would take Ward over Chubb with the Browns' circumstance.

When he proves he can stay on the field it’s a conversation.

The greatest ability is availability. Can’t help your team when you’re concussed.

 

[Ohio]

The greatest ability is availability. Can’t help your team when you’re concussed

Can’t argue with that