Browns hire Andrew Berry

[FrontPageNews]

I'll square up. Stefanski is #1 and it's not particularly close.

Berry is firmly #2.

Bonus discussion: Callahan or Baker for #3?

Baker pretty easily. I like Callahan but I think a lot of coaches who have been good with Willis bitinio Conklin and tretter. He did turn teller into an all pro type G but even without him that line would have been good.

 

[Cassity14]

What does Stefanski look like without the players Berry brought in? I think that makes it *close* at worst.

A good question would be: which is better, a Stefanski coached team with a Ray Farmer roster, or an Andrew Berry roster coached by Rob Chudzinski?

It's a good hypothetical, and the end result we can all agree on is that alignment is so key. Amazing how hard it is for organization (not just in sports) to not understand that.

I think Stefanski is the type of coach to build successful processes and infrastructure with his staff and roster no matter what the roster looks like. Obviously that doesn't result in 11 wins by accident, but I think he would overachieve in a poor situation much like Brian Flores did to start.

A bad coach will find ways to lose games even with talented rosters, so I'll take the former in your question 9 out of 10 times.

It is also telling to me that the Browns decided on Stefanski first, and then picked a GM to pair with him (getting his input on the matter). I think Stefanski is the culture setter for the entire organization.

 

[Ohio]

What does Stefanski look like without the players Berry brought in? I think that makes it *close* at worst.

A good question would be: which is better, a Stefanski coached team with a Ray Farmer roster, or an Andrew Berry roster coached by Rob Chudzinski?

The latter, for sure. Chudzinski wasn't a bad coach at all, his firing was probably the single dumbest thing Haslam has done since becoming our owner (which is really saying something). On the other side, Ray Farmer is probably the worst GM we've ever had (again, this is really saying something).

I agree with your point, it's a good one: That it's close between Stefanski and Berry being the most important person in the org.

I'd probably lean Berry, because at the end of the day, you're hopeless without having talented players on the field. It's tough to win with bad coaching, but we've seen really talented teams overcome it before.

 

[ChicagoCavFan]

When I saw this thread active, I assumed we released Berry from his (edit *ridiculous*) contract to sign him to a Lifetime deal. Disappointed that's not the case.

 

[JDailey23]

When I saw this thread active, I assumed we released Berry from his contract to sign him to a Lifetime deal. Disappointed that's not the case.

I expected him just to be let go and wish him well on his future endeavors.

 

[JDailey23]

It's a good hypothetical, and the end result we can all agree on is that alignment is so key. Amazing how hard it is for organization (not just in sports) to not understand that.

I think Stefanski is the type of coach to build successful processes and infrastructure with his staff and roster no matter what the roster looks like. Obviously that doesn't result in 11 wins by accident, but I think he would overachieve in a poor situation much like Brian Flores did to start.

A bad coach will find ways to lose games even with talented rosters, so I'll take the former in your question 9 out of 10 times.

It is also telling to me that the Browns decided on Stefanski first, and then picked a GM to pair with him (getting his input on the matter). I think Stefanski is the culture setter for the entire organization.

I don’t think Chud was a bad coach.
Can we change it to Berry and Shurmur?

 

[Cassity14]

I don’t think Chud was a bad coach.
Can we change it to Berry and Shurmur?

Why stop there? Berry and Hue!

 

[Vee-Rex]

I'm picking Stefanski. I've been sold on the wide zone scheme 10 years ago so his offense is something I've been a huge proponent of for awhile now. I think Stefanski with an average GM > Berry with an average HC.

 

[col63onel]

The latter, for sure. Chudzinski wasn't a bad coach at all, his firing was probably the single dumbest thing Haslam has done since becoming our owner (which is really saying something).

Haslam hired Hue Jackson when he was advised to hire Sean McDermott and drafted Johnny Manziel when he was advised to draft Teddy Bridgewater.

Those are HOF level fuck ups.

 

[Ohio]

Haslam hired Hue Jackson when he was advised to hire Sean McDermott and drafted Johnny Manziel when he was advised to draft Teddy Bridgewater.

Those are HOF level fuck ups.

Did Haslam draft Johnny Manziel?

Also, I'd argue firing an average (at least) coach after only 1 season on a rebuilding team, is far worse than simply hiring a bad coach. Bad head coaches are hired annually, that isn't unusual. Firing a competent coach on a shitty team after only 1 season is asinine.

 

[The Oi]

Does Kokinis count as a GM and what was he doing on his computer that got him fired?

 

[col63onel]

Did Haslam draft Johnny Manziel?

Also, I'd argue firing an average (at least) coach after only 1 season on a rebuilding team, is far worse than simply hiring a bad coach. Bad head coaches are hired annually, that isn't unusual. Firing a competent coach on a shitty team after only 1 season is asinine.

Wasn’t there the story that Farmer conducted a study that said Bridgewater should be the guy, but a homeless guy convinced Haslam to draft Manziel?

And I don't know that I'd characterize either the Chud firing or the Hue hiring in the ways you did.

It's hard to say that Chud was an average at worst coach. He was 1 year at 4-12. I'd certainly buy an argument that 4-12 might not be an accurate portrayal of him because of the Browns dysfunction. But he's never had another HC job to date to give as any evidence that he is better than 4-12.

And Hue was not merely a bad coach. He's literally the least successful HC of the modern era. And what made it even worse was that McDermott, the guy he interviewed and was advised to hire, has gone on to turn Buffalo from one of the few Browns-level bad teams to a perennial playoff team. So the opportunity cost of the Hue hire was also huge.

 

[JDailey23]

Does Kokinis count as a GM and what was he doing on his computer that got him fired?

What exactly was going on with him. I thought he was doing drugs and getting head. Am I wrong?

 

[Ohio]

Wasn’t there the story that Farmer conducted a study that said Bridgewater should be the guy, but a homeless guy convinced Haslam to draft Manziel?

I mean, do we really believe this? There was tons of shit being written around that time. People believe what they want to believe I suppose. And that's not to give Haslam the benefit of the doubt, he very well could have drafted Manziel. The homeless guy story is just a bit too out there for me to take seriously.

It's hard to say that Chud was an average at worst coach. He was 1 year at 4-12. I'd certainly buy an argument that 4-12 might not be an accurate portrayal of him because of the Browns dysfunction. But he's never had another HC job to date to give as any evidence that he is better than 4-12.

And Hue was not merely a bad coach. He's literally the least successful HC of the modern era. And what made it even worse was that McDermott, the guy he interviewed and was advised to hire, has gone on to turn Buffalo from one of the few Browns-level bad teams to a perennial playoff team. So the opportunity cost of the Hue hire was also huge.

I just felt Chud did a good job with the hand he was dealt. I just remember thinking while watching the games that he was making good decisions and helped the team be competitive on a weekly basis.

Hue is awful, but the organization was not trying to win his first 2 seasons as HC. Whether we went 4-28 instead of 1-31 never mattered to me and still doesn't; who cares? The bottom line was that the team was talentless in those 2 seasons. With that said, it was still obvious at that point that Hue was awful and never should have been brought back in 2018.

People generally get too hung up on wins and losses on rebuilding teams. Chud went 4-12, so what? Hue went 1-31, so what? That means almost nothing to me. I care about what kind of impact they were making; were they helping or hurting the team/organization?

 

[Cassity14]

I mean, do we really believe this? There was tons of shit being written around that time. People believe what they want to believe I suppose. And that's not to give Haslam the benefit of the doubt, he very well could have drafted Manziel. The homeless guy story is just a bit too out there for me to take seriously.


I just felt Chud did a good job with the hand he was dealt. I just remember thinking while watching the games that he was making good decisions and helped the team be competitive on a weekly basis.

Hue is awful, but the organization was not trying to win his first 2 seasons as HC. Whether we went 4-28 instead of 1-31 never mattered to me and still doesn't; who cares? The bottom line was that the team was talentless in those 2 seasons. With that said, it was still obvious at that point that Hue was awful and never should have been brought back in 2018.

People generally get too hung up on wins and losses on rebuilding teams. Chud went 4-12, so what? Hue went 1-31, so what? That means almost nothing to me. I care about what kind of impact they were making; were they helping or hurting the team/organization?

I don't think it's about wins and losses, but about the culture and tone they set. Do they develop processes to influence success? Do they build an infrastructure around them to get the most out of what they have?

With Hue, I can't imagine how he could have done worse in those areas.