Browns moving downtown?

[inliner311]

Now they just have Lollapalooza in Grant Park; I think I read in the Cle development thread that the airport should be rid of; if there was a large lake front park area that would probably draw a decent amount of people from out east or wherever for a decent fest.

I’m heading to Memphis tomorrow morning for Beale Street fest (queens of the Stone Age, jack white, Tyler the creator). If Memphis can string together a really nice 3-day fest once a year there isn’t a damn reason Cleveland can’t — unless it has one about which I don’t know.

This incuya fest was slated to be the start of the big festival for Cleveland. If you look at the lineup and know anything about festivals, you will see it is going to fail. It might not even sell enough ticket to actually happen. It was apparently the production company that does Coachella who partner with the rock hall to do it. Of the rock hall sponsored events I've gone to they usually screw it up in some way or another. The free Kid Cudi concert years back, the stage was too low and no one could see. That was also in mall c, which incuya will be in. The girl talk concert was at a real cool old venue that hadn't had a concert in years. The opening act didn't show up, they had like 3 or 4 people serving beer so the line was way too long, and they limited his set to an hour. Everyone was pissed leaving it.

The festival I was talking about at Soldier Field was Spring Awakening. It got moved to a park south of the city because of renovations to Soldier Field and they never went back.

 

[inliner311]

Rapid Transit makes being a drunk so much easier. In the Bay Area one plans on living near rail lines due to the convenience as traffic is so bad.

I think the usage of football stadiums as venues for concerts has been problematic since the mid-90s.

The fracturing of musical tastes has made the stadium concert more elusive. Back when everyone listened to the same music, probably the early 90s is when it really started fading away, you routinely saw concerts filled for most major acts. Now, barring the true A-List of acts, you won't see 40,000 people attending any music event. Also, the Cleveland Metro area may not be simply big enough to support numerous stadium sized concerts.

You are probably right that there are too few acts that can attract that size of a crowd. They could figure out an alternative layout for smaller acts though. Something to compete with Blossom. I think alot of people would rather go downtown for a concert than go out to Blossom.

 

[Matches]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/155048960@N02/40062273970/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/155048960@N02/41152422434/

These sketches shows how a stadium the size of Browns stadium or Lucas Oil stadium could be situated on the other side of the Innerbelt across from Jacobs Field, and integrated with the RTA rail lines. Even as a multipurpose facility with a roof or retractable roof, there is no need for it to sit on valuable lakefront property - it should be easy to access from highways and rapid transit, and this location fits that bill. It opens up the Lakefront and the Muni lots for development - both are criminally underdeveloped for their location.

 

[Derek]

Build a dome so we can host Wrestlemania

 

[Soda]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/155048960@N02/40062273970/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/155048960@N02/41152422434/

These sketches shows how a stadium the size of Browns stadium or Lucas Oil stadium could be situated on the other side of the Innerbelt across from Jacobs Field, and integrated with the RTA rail lines. Even as a multipurpose facility with a roof or retractable roof, there is no need for it to sit on valuable lakefront property - it should be easy to access from highways and rapid transit, and this location fits that bill. It opens up the Lakefront and the Muni lots for development - both are criminally underdeveloped for their location.

Agree 100% about the lakefront. Having the Rock Hall and Science Center already obstructs the view of the lake enough. The stadium is another tall obstruction.

Lucas Oil Stadium is right off of a highway & it looks very nice. Also, I don't think the lakefront area needs the help of First Energy Stadium to be attractive; the area you propose is currently home to a USPS, Cleveland Black Oxide, and a half-way house. I don't love the area for an "arena district" because it's far from any social scene, but I don't think it needs to be on the lakefront.

 

[BMAN]

Build a dome so we can host Wrestlemania

I was honestly coming in here to say this.

 

[B Mac]

Agree 100% about the lakefront. Having the Rock Hall and Science Center already obstructs the view of the lake enough. The stadium is another tall obstruction.

Lucas Oil Stadium is right off of a highway & it looks very nice. Also, I don't think the lakefront area needs the help of First Energy Stadium to be attractive; the area you propose is currently home to a USPS, Cleveland Black Oxide, and a half-way house. I don't love the area for an "arena district" because it's far from any social scene, but I don't think it needs to be on the lakefront.

That area is steps from Progressive Field though, right? Make a few walking paths, tunnels, pedestrian bridges and it would be like crossing the street.

It would be, what 4 blocks from The Jack and many bars would be even closer. Plus I’m pretty positive that bars and restaurants would start buying up some of the surrounding land and properties to put in a few more watering holes. I mean when I go to Browns games, I’m walking at least a mile around the city anyways. I think this would be an awesome spot.

 

[Huber.]

That area is steps from Progressive Field though, right? Make a few walking paths, tunnels, pedestrian bridges and it would be like crossing the street.

It would be, what 4 blocks from The Jack and many bars would be even closer. Plus I’m pretty positive that bars and restaurants would start buying up some of the surrounding land and properties to put in a few more watering holes. I mean when I go to Browns games, I’m walking at least a mile around the city anyways. I think this would be an awesome spot.

It's practically the same walking to distance from Tower City to the location matches gave as it is to FES. Also the same walking distance from say Flannery's to the location as it is to FES.

 

[inliner311]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/155048960@N02/40062273970/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/155048960@N02/41152422434/

These sketches shows how a stadium the size of Browns stadium or Lucas Oil stadium could be situated on the other side of the Innerbelt across from Jacobs Field, and integrated with the RTA rail lines. Even as a multipurpose facility with a roof or retractable roof, there is no need for it to sit on valuable lakefront property - it should be easy to access from highways and rapid transit, and this location fits that bill. It opens up the Lakefront and the Muni lots for development - both are criminally underdeveloped for their location.

I think it's a myth that the lake front property is valuable. There is a large plot of land right next to Burke lake front that has been for sale for years.

 

[Pick6]

I think it's a myth that the lake front property is valuable. There is a large plot of land right next to Burke lake front that has been for sale for years.

I kind of agree. We've got Edgewater Beach and then a waterfront entertainment district in both sides of the Flats already. The arguments of Burke "taking up valuable lakefront" are beyond tiring.

Nuevo Mod-Mex is right on the Lakefront, and I've only been there a few times, but business doesn't seem all that great (even though it is good). It's too far away from everything dowtown.

Also, what the heck would you develop in the muni lot? Its surrounded by a highway and cliff. I don't see how it will ever be anything but a parking lot.

 

[Huber.]

I think it's a myth that the lake front property is valuable. There is a large plot of land right next to Burke lake front that has been for sale for years.

I also fail to see how taking away the one major landmark the lakefront has (the stadium) increases the value.

 

[Matches]

In addition, the spot's connection to both the Green/Blue and Red lines mean that the entire Flats East Bank (via Green/Blue) and W. 25th are a short rapid trip away.

Valuable is one thing, desirable is probably the better word. The value of the land is probably somewhat lower than it ought to be because there is not much there. Investment has taken place along the E. 9th pier and that is creating more value and demand. Even a facility with a roof would be mostly dormant the vast majority of the year. Such a building would be better stuck in the industrial valley with good transportation access than on the lakefront, which should be a more continuously active neighborhood/recreation area.

 

[inliner311]

I kind of agree. We've got Edgewater Beach and then a waterfront entertainment district in both sides of the Flats already. The arguments of Burke "taking up valuable lakefront" are beyond tiring.

Nuevo Mod-Mex is right on the Lakefront, and I've only been there a few times, but business doesn't seem all that great (even though it is good). It's too far away from everything dowtown.

Also, what the heck would you develop in the muni lot? Its surrounded by a highway and cliff. I don't see how it will ever be anything but a parking lot.

The railroad tracks and highway in that area just creates a bottle neck. You can only get to the Muni lot from east 9th or east 38th if you are on the city side. Are they going to create a bunch of tunnels or bridges to make it more accessible?

 

[inliner311]

I also fail to see how taking away the one major landmark the lakefront has (the stadium) increases the value.

Also anyone who has been there for a game on a cold (sub 50 degree) day knows no one want to go down there to just shop or go to a restaurant when it's like that, which is like half the year in Cleveland.

 

[Matches]

Also, what the heck would you develop in the muni lot? Its surrounded by a highway and cliff. I don't see how it will ever be anything but a parking lot.

We built a rapid line to a parking lot. That was stupid. South Harbor rapid station doesn't have to be a parking lot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transit-oriented_development

The landmark on the lakefront is the lake itself. People are drawn to water, not empty football stadiums.