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BROWNS OFF-SEASON 2020

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The potential difference in raw salary between Vernon's current salary and that Clowney rumor is pretty close. But Clowney would require a significant guarantee tied to a multi-year deal.

I just don’t think we are there yet. He won’t put us over the edge. I will say this tho: I caught a game on TV last year and he was straight dominant. Like, best defender on the field. Not sure he can sustain that but wow.
 
No offense, but I honestly think this is kind of a lazy take... Clowney consistently ranks as one of the best EDGEs in pass-block win rate. He is not Myles Garrett, but he gets a lot of double-teams and beats them, can be played all over the line, and - as you noted - is a great run defender.

Honestly, Clowney’s numbers are promising enough that it would not shock me if he suddenly pulled off a double-digit sack season, especially with Garrett on the other side of the line.


I get what you’re saying and I respect the stats you’ve laid out.

But at the same time there’s a huge amount of value in ending passing plays that Clowney has simply never consistently brought to the table at any point in his career.

I do think he’s a VERY good edge overall when you factor in his elite ability against the run, but I just don’t think it can be said that he’s one of the 15 best pure pass rushers in the NFL.

In a lot of ways, Clowney is like a rich man’s version of Vernon. They both consistently grade out well on PFF. They’re both good against the run. And they are both players whose sack production does not really match their ability to create pressure and beat blocks.
 
I think Clowney's a beast, and would be a terrific upgrade from Vernon. There aren't many available options out there that I feel would be an upgrade, but he's the guy who isn't just an upgrade because you're getting multiple years of him instead of one, but would also be an upgrade in year one.

I also think that we've come a little too far on valuing things like pressures when we used things beyond simple, traditional, box score stats to measure players. There's a significant difference between just getting into the backfield, and actually wrapping up and making the play. This isn't a criticism of anyone. It's just something that I think we've shifted a touch too far on.

I also just want this guy on my team. Still one of the biggest college football hits I've ever seen.... and it was against Michigan

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Free agent Jadeveon Clowney has lowered his asking price.
Clowney is asking for around $17 million per year after seeking $20-plus million annually. Re-signing with Seattle remains one of his top options, but the Seahawks may only be willing to pay him between $13-$15 million AAV. The coronavirus pandemic has worked against Clowney, with teams unable to bring him in for a physical. Clowney's best bet may be settling for a one-year, prove-it deal.
 
I also just want this guy on my team. Still one of the biggest college football hits I've ever seen.... and it was against Michigan

I don't watch a lot of college football, but I remember seeing that play and thinking "wow". Until I saw the replay, and saw that he didn't actually beat anyone. It was just a totally blown blocking assignment. He was left completely unblocked and had a straight shot to the ball carrier on a play when the entire defense was in attack mode.

Very good player, but that particular play has been overblown in terms of what it said about him as a player.

ETA: I wouldn't be opposed to signing him if we didn't have Garrett, but the size of the contract it is going to take to sign him and to re-sign Garrett is going to mean too much money spent on that position. While it would be great to have bookends like that, we'd be getting both of them at full market price. That's unaffordable.
 
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I get what you’re saying and I respect the stats you’ve laid out.

But at the same time there’s a huge amount of value in ending passing plays that Clowney has simply never consistently brought to the table at any point in his career.

I do think he’s a VERY good edge overall when you factor in his elite ability against the run, but I just don’t think it can be said that he’s one of the 15 best pure pass rushers in the NFL.

In a lot of ways, Clowney is like a rich man’s version of Vernon. They both consistently grade out well on PFF. They’re both good against the run. And they are both players whose sack production does not really match their ability to create pressure and beat blocks.
I just happen to think Clowney is much better at beating his assignment than Vernon is, and moreover, has dealt with double-teams his entire career. I imagine his sack/hit numbers will be much better playing on a line with Garrett and Richardson than in Houston or Seattle.

Also, to your point about run defense, a big portion of Clowney’s value is being able to place him anywhere along the line. It would let Joe Woods have two EDGE players that you could move inside to target mismatches.

I am a big fan and would love the signing... as long as his contract expired when Garrett gets his extension.
 
I don't watch a lot of college football, but I remember seeing that play and thinking "wow". Until I saw the replay, and saw that he didn't actually beat anyone. It was just a totally blown blocking assignment. He was left completely unblocked and had a straight shot to the ball carrier on a play when the entire defense was in attack mode.

Very good player, but that particular play has been overblown in terms of what it said about him as a player.

ETA: I wouldn't be opposed to signing him if we didn't have Garrett, but the size of the contract it is going to take to sign him and to re-sign Garrett is going to mean too much money spent on that position. While it would be great to have bookends like that, we'd be getting both of them at full market price. That's unaffordable.
Oh yeah, I do not think that play has anything to do with his ability.

It's just fun seeing someone (Especially someone from Michigan) get destroyed like that. I can't recall another NCAAF hit as violent (and clean) as this that wasn't on special teams or against a defenseless receiver.
 
I just happen to think Clowney is much better at beating his assignment than Vernon is, and moreover, has dealt with double-teams his entire career. I imagine his sack/hit numbers will be much better playing on a line with Garrett and Richardson than in Houston or Seattle.

I don't know, he had some talent on the Houston line.
 
I just happen to think Clowney is much better at beating his assignment than Vernon is, and moreover, has dealt with double-teams his entire career. I imagine his sack/hit numbers will be much better playing on a line with Garrett and Richardson than in Houston or Seattle.

Also, to your point about run defense, a big portion of Clowney’s value is being able to place him anywhere along the line. It would let Joe Woods have two EDGE players that you could move inside to target mismatches.

I am a big fan and would love the signing... as long as his contract expired when Garrett gets his extension.

I do think he’s better than Vernon, but Clowney has played with/opposite some strong pass rushers in his day.

JJ Watt and Whitney Mercilus both battled injuries and still combined for 54.5 sacks from 2015-2018.
 
Interesting to see us meeting with CeeDee Lamb at the Combine.

I wonder if teams use these shows to play mind games with other teams during the draft and get them to trade up? Maybe get a team like Minnesota to jump up?

I also wonder if their list would have changed at all if they knew this was going to be the only chance to meet with guys?

It's wild to have this little time capsule before covid-19 with them preparing for pro-days and shit. Next week's episode should be good.
 
I do think he’s better than Vernon, but Clowney has played with/opposite some strong pass rushers in his day.

JJ Watt and Whitney Mercilus both battled injuries and still combined for 54.5 sacks from 2015-2018.
Definitely, but - IIRC - Clowney gets double-teamed more than any other player in the NFL and has for his career. This is the double-team rate (x-axis) and pass-rush-win-rate (y-axis) for this past season.
 

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Definitely, but - IIRC - Clowney gets double-teamed more than any other player in the NFL and has for his career. This is the double-team rate (x-axis) and pass-rush-win-rate (y-axis) for this past season.

Last year with Seattle was a horse of a different color for sure.

The Seahawks had a terrible pass rush overall (only 28 sacks), so it doesn’t surprise me at all that Clowney got doubled and chipped all the time.
 

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