Browns trade Kizer for Randall

[CBBI]

One of the things that people get so irate with insurance is that they view their insurance policy as an investment

“I’ve paid into this for X years and it’s never given me a dime”

As if the insurance was thereby a bad purchase or “investment”

But in reality, it served its exact purpose. Protection against adverse circumstances. I like the comparison of Tyrod to an insurance policy. We didn’t need that insurance any longer when the adverse outcome (Mayfield not being ready) didn’t happen. And this insurance policy actually did pay some dividends with helping to show Mayfield what it means to be an NFL QB

I understand the concept of an insurance policy, but you’re misrepresenting what the Browns actually did in this situation.

You claim Tyrod was simply protection against adverse circumstances (Mayfield not being ready), but that really isn’t accurate considering they handed Taylor the starting job without a competition BEFORE THEY EVEN DRAFTED MAYFIELD. Then in camp and the preseason when it was abundantly clear that Mayfield was the better QB, they still opted to not give him a single first team rep.

Combine that with the fact that Hard Knocks and every Mayfield interview about the QB room pretty much confirmed that Taylor, who was learning a brand new system and trying to lead new teammates, didn’t have time or interest in being any sort of mentor to Mayfield.

They didn’t bring in Taylor to be a mentor or be insurance. They brought him in to start. It was a bad use of assets when it happened and looks even worse now than it did in March.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Tyrod was for Hue and, specifically, to make sure he had what he said he needed to succeed. Regardless if Dorsey wanted him or thought he was better than Mayfield, I think the important thing for Dorsey was to give Hue a real chance.

Ultimately, Tyrod was Tyrod and Hue was who we thought he was. Cost us a 3rd rounder but I dont mind Dorsey doing everything he can to help his HC succeed.

 

[Vee-Rex]

I understand the concept of an insurance policy, but you’re misrepresenting what the Browns actually did in this situation.

You claim Tyrod was simply protection against adverse circumstances (Mayfield not being ready), but that really isn’t accurate considering they handed Taylor the starting job without a competition BEFORE THEY EVEN DRAFTED MAYFIELD. Then in camp and the preseason when it was abundantly clear that Mayfield was the better QB, they still opted to not give him a single first team rep.

Combine that with the fact that Hard Knocks and every Mayfield interview about the QB room pretty much confirmed that Taylor, who was learning a brand new system and trying to lead new teammates, didn’t have time or interest in being any sort of mentor to Mayfield.

They didn’t bring in Taylor to be a mentor or be insurance. They brought him in to start. It was a bad use of assets when it happened and looks even worse now than it did in March.

I think NFL minds still hold strongly to the opinion that rookie QBs should be given all the extra time needed to ensure they are as successful as they can be. Whether you or I agree is irrelevant - they are careful to try not to 'ruin' anyone by getting them annihilated when the O-Line hasn't developed or built a repertoire yet, and don't want their HUGE investment to develop bad habits.

If anything, the fact that they were so ultra careful with Mayfield and approached it with a 'better safe than sorry' attitude despite flashes that Mayfield was better just shows how much they valued him. Because no matter how good a rookie looks in camp and preseason, he can still drop a turd come regular season - Browns fans should know this more than anyone. So why risk otherwise? What if Mayfield wasn't quite as good as he has shown, came in to start, got annihilated by NFL defenses, developed jumpy/scared habits, and more, was bashed/demolished by extremely fickle Browns fans and media who still hadn't completely surrendered support for Rosen/Darnold?

In 5 years when Mayfield is already a multi-pro bowler and leading us to Super Bowl wins, will you guys really be upset that he was held back a little bit because the GM (and coaches) wanted to be super safe and careful?

So yes, it was an insurance policy that they intended to follow through on even if Mayfield looked like prime Tom Brady. Can't say I fully agree but I understand WHY and I certainly would rather have a GM that crosses his t's and dots his i's than one that doesn't. A 3rd round pick is worth that for me.

That's the long-term vision that, unfortunately, short-sighted fans just don't seem to comprehend.

 

[CBBI]

I think NFL minds still hold strongly to the opinion that rookie QBs should be given all the extra time needed to ensure they are as successful as they can be. Whether you or I agree is irrelevant - they are careful to try not to 'ruin' anyone by getting them annihilated when the O-Line hasn't developed or built a repertoire yet, and don't want their HUGE investment to develop bad habits.

If anything, the fact that they were so ultra careful with Mayfield and approached it with a 'better safe than sorry' attitude despite flashes that Mayfield was better just shows how much they valued him. Because no matter how good a rookie looks in camp and preseason, he can still drop a turd come regular season - Browns fans should know this more than anyone. So why risk otherwise? What if Mayfield wasn't quite as good as he has shown, came in to start, got annihilated by NFL defenses, developed jumpy/scared habits, and more, was bashed/demolished by extremely fickle Browns fans and media who still hadn't completely surrendered support for Rosen/Darnold?

In 5 years when Mayfield is already a multi-pro bowler and leading us to Super Bowl wins, will you guys really be upset that he was held back a little bit because the GM (and coaches) wanted to be super safe and careful?

So yes, it was an insurance policy that they intended to follow through on even if Mayfield looked like prime Tom Brady. Can't say I fully agree but I understand WHY and I certainly would rather have a GM that crosses his t's and dots his i's than one that doesn't. A 3rd round pick is worth that for me.

That's the long-term vision that, unfortunately, short-sighted fans just don't seem to comprehend.

I comprehend it just fine.

The point is, they could have signed about 5 different guys that would have provided them the same level of "insurance" and saved the 3rd round pick.

 

[AZ_]

We still on this?

They missed, it was a bust.

$15M + Pick #65 for Tyrod was a mistake. Full stop.


I understand its hindsight, but that's like saying "well it turns out Anthony Bennett sucked but we bear no fault for trying"

Dorsey has made some excellent moves, this one was a substantial failure.

 

[dark2332]

What if Mayfield wasn't quite as good as he has shown, came in to start, got annihilated by NFL defenses, developed jumpy/scared habits

I think this is an important point because we saw some of this happening before Haley and Hue were fired.

That Jets relief job was masterful, but as time went on, especially that last game versus Pittsburgh, we saw Baker at rock bottom. The rush was clearly getting to him and he was starting to look like a guy who knew he was going to get hit. He was also bailing the pocket more as a result.

 

[Vee-Rex]

I comprehend it just fine.

The point is, they could have signed about 5 different guys that would have provided them the same level of "insurance" and saved the 3rd round pick.

The franchise just came off 1-31 from the past two years. It was in a bit of a conundrum where it needed to draft its QB of the future while simultaneously winning enough games to start changing the losing culture. Typically, even #1 QBs take a year or two to develop enough to win a lot of games for the franchise. So the idea was that we needed a bridge QB that could win 6+ games while the Franchise Savior/God took all the time he needed to learn.

Tyrod Taylor was invited to the pro bowl, yet also didn't require a long-term commitment due to his contract - I don't think there's 5 guys we could've signed last year to fit that mold, and certainly if there were 5 borderline pro-bowl caliber guys available, what makes you think they'd come to the 1-31 lolBrowns?

Honestly, there's room between 'good trade' and ZOMG FAILURE SO HORRIBLE TRADE. You have to try to make BIG splashes to turn around such a miserable franchise and that may come with some deals that just don't work out. Gunslinger Dorsey got his gunslinger QB and fans will just have to settle with a bunch of great results and few unfortunate ones to come with it.

We've done it with Baker all year. There is VERY little nit-picking on his mishaps.

I realize it's because he's a rookie, but you better believe I'll defend prime Mayfield and his 40+ TD 15+ INT seasons just the same when nit-picky fans are whining about his mishaps.

Don't mess with my buddy boy!

 

[Urban]

Tyrod played 185 snaps, was largely horrible and made key turnovers in Weeks 1 and 2, and won't be back next season. All for an early 3rd round pick and $15m of salary.

Sure, the Browns didn't give up a 1st or waste a pick on a young QB like Manziel (or old, like Weeden) which will set the franchise back a few years. But they gave up a valuable pick and lots of money for zero production; that is a bad trade.

 

[godfather]

We still on this?

They missed, it was a bust.

$15M + Pick #65 for Tyrod was a mistake. Full stop.


I understand its hindsight, but that's like saying "well it turns out Anthony Bennett sucked but we bear no fault for trying"

Dorsey has made some excellent moves, this one was a substantial failure.

I think its just silly to acknowledge it wasn't a bad move. And that doesn't mean we have to poo poo on Dorsey.

Everyone makes bad moves. Even the best of the best.

It's kind of silly to sit back and justify it into a good move at the "time". Like, okay? I mean I'm sure they wouldn't have made it if they didn't think it'd be a good thing at the time.

There was logic to it, but it was one, I think faulty personally.

Two, they could have gone other directions.

Three, it didn't make a dent of difference and cost a third rounder in the end.

Just about everything else he's done has worked.

I think they overvalued Tyrod and underestimated Baker.

It's not a move any of us are going to lose sleep over, it just didn't work out.

 

[Lee]

We still on this?

They missed, it was a bust.

$15M + Pick #65 for Tyrod was a mistake. Full stop.


I understand its hindsight, but that's like saying "well it turns out Anthony Bennett sucked but we bear no fault for trying"

Dorsey has made some excellent moves, this one was a substantial failure.

Not many people believe bennett was a number 1 overall pick at the time, do it is different.

I thought having Tyrod as an insurance policy was worth it.

Further we could have traded Tyrod during the season to get some draft capital back like we did with Hyde, so even after Baker won the job, Tyrod provided something that Dorsey valued enough to keep on the team.

Remember rookies have to learn how to be leaders and learn from example. Tyrod isn't a great QB, but he is a great locker room guy and great example on how to behave like a pro. That is worth something too.

 

[TheISHT]

It's insurance. Hopefully you don't have to Cash it in.

I know Mayfield is lightyears better than Tyrod and he hung on the ball too long, many sacks were his own fault, but he got pummeled the first 3 games. I'm glad it wasn't Mayfield getting his head slammed into the ground and being concussed.

I think Dorsey wanted to potentially have a playoff team while coddling whichever qb he took at #1. While I don't like it, it was an overpay, it did work out in my eyes.

 

[AZ_]

Not many people believe bennett was a number 1 overall pick at the time, do it is different.

I thought having Tyrod as an insurance policy was worth it.

Further we could have traded Tyrod during the season to get some draft capital back like we did with Hyde, so even after Baker won the job, Tyrod provided something that Dorsey valued enough to keep on the team.

Remember rookies have to learn how to be leaders and learn from example. Tyrod isn't a great QB, but he is a great locker room guy and great example on how to behave like a pro. That is worth something too.

But its not insurance, you don't recoup $15M and a third round pick.

Its like having insurance, but instead of money you have an agent come kick you in the dick. But its okay because the agent is a likable guy in the locker room.

 

[chrisrich91]

No one has made a new point in how many pages now?

Gonna be a long, boring offseason.

 

[Lee]

But its not insurance, you don't recoup $15M and a third round pick.

Its like having insurance, but instead of money you have an agent come kick you in the dick. But its okay because the agent is a likable guy in the locker room.

That is not how insurance works.

If you pay an insurance company $1,000 a year to insure your car for 10 years, then switch insurance companies, then at the end of 10 years you don't get your $10,000 back.

Even in a whole life policy, the insurance component you never get back, you are actually investing and insurance separately in one product. (its a dumb product I used to sell)

 

[CBBI]

It's not insurance.

It's like spending years driving an absolute junker, then winning the lottery and buying a Ferrari. But then being so afraid the Ferrari won't hold up as your daily driver that you buy a $25K Honda Accord for $40K just to be safe.

Yeah great, you have two cars now. The first car is still way better and you still overpaid for the second car that you didn't really need.