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KI4MVP

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When electric cars can travel further than 300 miles and don't require a $400+ monthly payment.
subtract the cost of gas and maintenance and factor in the longer life once it's paid off
 

KI4MVP

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And will need 7-8 new batteries in that time at 5k per a battery and complete toxins and acid to dispose of.
more like 1 to 2 new batteries, the batteries are designed to last 300k to 500k miles and Tesla recycles the used ones

“At Gigafactory 1, Tesla is developing a unique battery recycling system that will process both battery manufacturing scrap and end-of-life batteries. Through this system, the recovery of critical minerals such as lithium and cobalt will be maximized along with the recovery of all metals used in the battery cell, such as copper, aluminum and steel. All of these materials will be recovered in forms optimized for new battery material production.”

So buy 1 car that last 1 million miles and replace the batteries once or twice during that time, having the old ones recycled for new battery production vs buying 5 to 10 gas powered cars that have to be scrapped because the engine, transmission, etc, becomes more expensive to maintain than replacing the vehicle.
 

Huber.

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subtract the cost of gas and maintenance and factor in the longer life once it's paid off
Subtract that and I'm about 100 miles short of my destination. Sitting in a parking lot waiting for it to charge. For most people it still only makes sense to buy used and gas
 

KI4MVP

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Subtract that and I'm about 100 miles short of my destination. Sitting in a parking lot waiting for it to charge
you're worried about a 10 minute wait vs never, ever having to stop for gas or charging when you're not on trips.
 

inliner311

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There are less parts on the electric, and I am all for one day everyone having electric cars and solar in their home so we are using a free renewable source to drive our vehicles, but there is a hidden secret that electric car people never want to talk about....batteries.

The batteries should last you around 8 years, which is good, but it costs 5k or so to replace one, and they might be worse for the environment to dispose of than the actual 8 years of fossil fuel.

Doesnt make me anti electric cars, just something no one mentions.
The batteries are a real concern for people who like to buy used. You can't buy a older Tesla and not have to worry about having to replace the battery at some point. I think it's going to be a real problem for the resale value of the model 3. An 8 year old model 3 that might need it's battery replace soon won't be worth much. Not to mention how there might be just all these Teslas going to the scrap yard at 16+ years because no one will want to put 5k into a car that isn't worth that much.

The other thing is all the sensors Telsas have and alot of the time they are most annoying things to replace on a regular car.
 
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KI4MVP

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The other thing is all the sensors Telsas have and alot of the time they are most annoying things to replace on a regular car.
Do you mean the sensors that make them safe? The 3 safest cars ever tested by NHTSA are teslas, not only that, unlike other manufactures, there is no uncharge for these safety features, even the base model has all of them.

 

KI4MVP

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The batteries are a real concern for people who like to buy used. You can't buy a older Tesla and not have to worry about having to replace the battery at some point. I think it's going to be a real problem for the resale value of the model 3. An 8 year old model 3 that might need it's battery replace soon won't be worth much. Not to mention how there might be just all these Teslas going to the scrap yard at 16+ years because no one will want to put 5k into a car that isn't worth that much.
Why do you think a car that still has 500-700k miles of life left is going to have low value?
 

TyGuy

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you're worried about a 10 minute wait vs never, ever having to stop for gas or charging when you're not on trips.
Where are you getting the 10 minute figure? I'm seeing 40 minutes to go from 8% - 90 %


 

inliner311

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Why do you think a car that still has 500-700k miles of life left is going to have low value?
Because there is a big segment of the market that don't like cars more than 5 years old and out of warranty. Depreciation of a car really can be attributed to the people who they fall into over time. At some point the burden of the cost of a big maintenance issue tanks a cars value. Like a 10 year old Audi A8 is worth less than a 10 year old Audi A4 because they have $3-4k suspension problems.

I tried to convince my brother to buy a used Telsa not to long ago and when he saw that he would have to buy another battery 4 years or so down the road, he would out on the idea.
 

TyGuy

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There is also the issue of charge stations not being available in the same volume as gas stations, and they are proprietary. Could you imagine gas stations that only serviced Ford vehicles?
 

Out of the Rafters at the Q

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The batteries are a real concern for people who like to buy used. You can't buy a older Tesla and not have to worry about having to replace the battery at some point. I think it's going to be a real problem for the resale value of the model 3. An 8 year old model 3 that might need it's battery replace soon won't be worth much. Not to mention how there might be just all these Teslas going to the scrap yard at 16+ years because no one will want to put 5k into a car that isn't worth that much.

The other thing is all the sensors Telsas have and alot of the time they are most annoying things to replace on a regular car.
I don't think you understand the topic.

The current battery tech is rated for about 10% degradation after 1000 full charge cycles. Since it's incredibly rare to hit a full charge cycle, this number is realistically doubled to 2,000 half-cycles (Anything above 30% is considered a half-cycle).

2,000 charges gets you close to that 8-year warranty that Tesla offers. With progressive degradation, you're probably still going to have a car that's at least 80% of its original battery capacity 15+ years into ownership.

Also, instead of taking my hypothetical breakdown, here's some actual data from 286 model S owners: https://electrek.co/2016/11/01/tesla-battery-degradation/

For the people saying "a battery" costs $5k+, your terminology is really off. The Model S contains 7,104 individual batteries. That $5k+ cost is the price to replace the entire battery pack.

With fewer moving parts and lower cost of maintenance, there's no reason for a modern electric vehicle to not hold its value well past where a traditional combustion engine would be scrapped.

Also, we're nearing more major breakthroughs in battery technology. There are a lot of companies out there doing some pretty cool things, like batteries configured so that you can drain the reduced charge fluids from a lithium-ion battery and replace it with new fluids. Boom, back to 100% of your initial battery life.

The downsides right now would be the cost of production for the electric vehicle. It's not cheap and it's not environmentally friendly to produce. But once you get past those two, I think the only obstacle left is the American fear of miles per charge.
 

Out of the Rafters at the Q

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Pro tip, you don't convince people by putting them on their heels by proclaiming their ignorance.
I really don't care how he reacts emotionally.

Why do you assume my goal is to "convince" people?

There's also a difference between stating that I think he doesn't understand the topic and proclaiming he doesn't understand the topic. One I know to be true. The other I couldn't possibly know to be true.

If he can challenge my assumption, I'd be excited to be wrong. If he understands the topic well and has information I haven't found before, that would be pretty cool.

We could've done without this diatribe.
 
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