Carmelo Anthony

[gourimoko]

This literally doesn't make sense, which is odd, because your trade ideas usually do a good job of taking the other team's mindset into account. But there's no reason for the Hornets to trade a future first in a deal like this unless they're also getting out from under Batum's contract.

I disagree. I think in their instance trading a future partially-protected first for a known commodity in a loaded draft (the 2018 #8 pick) makes sense. Especially if they don't think the pick will convey for several years. Again, the pick has protection, so their risk is minimized.

So for example, if Charlotte bottoms out for the next 3-4 years, the pick does not convey.

 

[czvo]

I disagree. I think in their instance trading a future partially-protected first for a known commodity in a loaded draft (the 2018 #8 pick) makes sense. Especially if they don't think the pick will convey for several years.

The flipside of that, and the viewpoint most everyone in Charlotte would take is:

"You're trading the most popular and best player this franchise has had in decades for the 8th pick in the draft? AND you're giving up a future first?? Who cares if there are protections, what are you doing????"

There's NO way to spin that to your fanbase, particularly when Kemba isn't clamoring to leave.

 

[gourimoko]

The flipside of that, and the viewpoint most everyone in Charlotte would take is:

"You're trading the most popular and best player this franchise has had in decades for the 8th pick in the draft? AND you're giving up a future first?? Who cares if there are protections, what are you doing????"

There's NO way to spin that to your fanbase, particularly when Kemba isn't clamoring to leave.

I think everyone in Charlotte recognizes Kemba Walker is out the door; and FWIW, he's already been on the block.

Jordan wanted him traded this year for the BKN pick OR taking back Batum.. Given the parameters of their ask last year, I don't see how adding a future first that will not immediately convey, nor would it convey if they bottomed out, would somehow deter them from trading Kemba for a lottery pick in a loaded draft?

I think, ranking things value-wise, one would consider this kind of pick swap to be of more value than us simply taking back Batum. Maybe they'd prefer salary relief? But I can't see them holding up a trade like this, knowing we needed to get back a first round pick; simply because of what uninformed fans might think not understanding pick protection...

 

[The Red Viper]

I would rather take that Batum contract than give the Brooklyn pick away.

Call me mad but I think Batum is a good player who needs to play as a 4th or 5th option instead of the 2nd option he is being entrusted in Charlotte. He is a very handy, jack of all-trades player. Obviously he is being horribly overpaid but you can still get a good role-player out of him.

 

[czvo]

I think everyone in Charlotte recognizes Kemba Walker is out the door; and FWIW, he's already been on the block.

Jordan wanted him traded this year for the BKN pick OR taking back Batum.. Given the parameters of their ask last year, I don't see how adding a future first that will not immediately convey, nor would it convey if they bottomed out, would somehow deter them from trading Kemba for a lottery pick in a loaded draft?

I think, ranking things value-wise, one would consider this kind of pick swap to be of more value than us simply taking back Batum. Maybe they'd prefer salary relief? But I can't see them holding up a trade like this, knowing we needed to get back a first round pick; simply because of what uninformed fans might think not understanding pick protection...

I don't think that's true. @InBoobieWeTrust would have to confirm/deny, but the reports seemed to be that once Jordan got involved, Kemba was darn near untouchable unless the Cavs were willing to part with the Brooklyn pick AND provide salary relief.

 

[gourimoko]

I don't think that's true. @InBoobieWeTrust would have to confirm/deny, but the reports seemed to be that once Jordan got involved, Kemba was darn near untouchable unless the Cavs were willing to part with the Brooklyn pick AND provide salary relief.

No, I'm quite positive that's definitely not the case; at least not with respect to what's been reported.

It was the BKN pick OR salary relief; I've posted about this a few times now already. Jordan wanted either the pick, or we took back massive salary (i.e., Batum).

 

[Cavatt]

This is an interesting conversation.

But, I'm struggling to see it from OKCs perspective. Why wouldn't OKC just buy out Melo themselves? Why use George as a way to get out of Melo's 1 year deal, to then just pay whatever guys we send back in the trade?

Okc is notoriously cheap

 

[bigfoot5415]

Please keep the Batum shit out of here. If you think we were crippled prior....it will get 100x worse with that contract.

 

[gourimoko]

Please keep the Batum shit out of here. If you think we were crippled prior....it will get 100x worse with that contract.

Cavs would stretch-waive Batum's contract. It would take up $10M of the cap; which is a lot, but not debilitating, especially if we're resigned to being over the cap for the foreseeable future.

 

[bigfoot5415]

Cavs would stretch-waive Batum's contract. It would take up $10M of the cap; which is a lot, but not debilitating, especially if we're resigned to being over the cap for the foreseeable future.

That makes it an interesting scenario. What are the stipulations to the stretch provision & why hasn't CHA used it?

 

[gourimoko]

That makes it an interesting scenario. What are the stipulations to the stretch provision & why hasn't CHA used it?

There aren't any restrictions per se; however there are rules regarding how the strech/waive operates depending upon when the player was waived. If we traded for Batum, we'd be waiving him prior to the start of the season, so, we'd operate under the more favorable ruleset.

Overall, this would mean that we would take back Batum's remaining 3 years, where he's averaging right around $26M/yr. Stretching Batum turns his contract into a 7-year cap hold (numberOfYears*2+1), and then we divide the number of years into the salary remaining.

So $75M/7Y = $10.7M/yr...

Now, if you're a team above the cap, and you've just signed Paul George, LeBron James, to 4-year deals, and you expect to sign Kemba to a 5-year deal; then you're likely not planning on tanking for the next 4-5 years... It also means you'll almost assuredly be over the cap so you wouldn't be able to use $10M in cap space anyway -- you're more focused on mitigating the luxury tax if anything...

And with that said, considering the repeater tax, adding $10M in salary makes having bad contracts like Thompson, Smith, Clarkson and Hill all the more difficult. We would probably need to stop taking back overpaid players and also stop handing out our own share of bad contracts to the league.

However, if you're Charlotte, you're very likely hoping to go below the cap, to help your rebuild by taking back contracts for draft picks, and facilitating trades (just as the Cavs did during our mini-rebuild with Kyrie). So having $10M in dead cap space would fucking suck.

This is also true for a post-LeBron Cavaliers team, FWIW.

As far as why the Hornets haven't done this; it's because they don't want to be on the hook for Batum's salary while he plays for another team. They would hope to trade him first, rather than committing to the full $75M in guaranteed salary that he's owed via stretching his contract.

It's a radical move, to be sure -- but one the Cavs could make if it meant reshaping the team and getting Kemba without giving up a major asset.

 

[bigfoot5415]

There aren't any restrictions per se; however there are rules regarding how the strech/waive operates depending upon when the player was waived. If we traded for Batum, we'd be waiving him prior to the start of the season, so, we'd operate under the more favorable ruleset.

Overall, this would mean that we would take back Batum's remaining 3 years, where he's averaging right around $26M/yr. Stretching Batum turns his contract into a 7-year cap hold (numberOfYears*2+1), and then we divide the number of years into the salary remaining.

So $75M/7Y = $10.7M/yr...

Now, if you're a team above the cap, and you've just signed Paul George, LeBron James, to 4-year deals, and you expect to sign Kemba to a 5-year deal; then you're likely not planning on tanking for the next 4-5 years... It also means you'll almost assuredly be over the cap so you wouldn't be able to use $10M in cap space anyway -- you're more focused on mitigating the luxury tax if anything...

And with that said, considering the repeater tax, adding $10M in salary makes having bad contracts like Thompson, Smith, Clarkson and Hill all the more difficult. We would probably need to stop taking back overpaid players and also stop handing out our own share of bad contracts to the league.

However, if you're Charlotte, you're very likely hoping to go below the cap, to help your rebuild by taking back contracts for draft picks, and facilitating trades (just as the Cavs did during our mini-rebuild with Kyrie). So having $10M in dead cap space would fucking suck.

This is also true for a post-LeBron Cavaliers team, FWIW.

As far as why the Hornets haven't done this; it's because they don't want to be on the hook for Batum's salary while he plays for another team. They would hope to trade him first, rather than committing to the full $75M in guaranteed salary that he's owed via stretching his contract.

It's a radical move, to be sure -- but one the Cavs could make if it meant reshaping the team and getting Kemba without giving up a major asset.

Does his salary still count against the tax bill? Depending on the move, he may be worth having for year #1 while Kemba is on the cheap then stretched in year 2 if not serviceable.

Looks like according to a few sites the year 1 salary remains the same. I wonder how options work.

 

[gourimoko]

Does his salary still count against the tax bill?

The stretched amount does, yes.

Depending on the move, he may be worth having for year #1 while Kemba is on the cheap then stretched in year 2 if not serviceable.

Indeed. However, if we S&T for George, you'd have to stretch him immediately.

Looks like according to a few sites the year 1 salary remains the same. I wonder how options work.

That's only if we stretch after a certain date ... His year 1 salary would be $10.7M if we did the trade early in the offseason.

 

[col63onel]

Please keep the Batum shit out of here. If you think we were crippled prior....it will get 100x worse with that contract.

Batum's contract to the current Cavs is like a calf cramp to a guy with a broken leg.

 

[bigfoot5415]

The stretched amount does, yes.



Indeed. However, if we S&T for George, you'd have to stretch him immediately.



That's only if we stretch after a certain date ... His year 1 salary would be $10.7M if we did the trade early in the offseason.

Hypothetically what do your two trade scenarios look like? Thats a lot of money being moved for us.