Cavs draft workouts

[DeeThree]

I like Garland.

 

[sailfish]

I like Grant Williams. Play making PF. He's only 6-7 but has a 6-11 wingspan. Nice defender. Has Draymond without the scumbag upside if everything goes right. Nice fit in Beileins system.

I think the Cavaliers’ ‘perfect draft’ would be De’Andre Hunter at #7 or #8, after a slight trade back, and Grant Williams at #26. Two productive, efficient college players, with high PER’s, which would also satisfy their analytics department.

 

[catfish]

I think the Cavaliers’ ‘perfect draft’ would be De’Andre Hunter at #7 or #8, after a slight trade back, and Grant Williams at #26. Two productive, efficient college players, with high PER’s, which would also satisfy their analytics department.

Not sure it is going to turn out way you expect

 

[sailfish]

Not sure it is going to turn out way you expect

I think there’s a good chance it does. The Cavaliers place a big value on analytics and Hunter & Williams both shine in that area.

 

[dark2332]

I think there’s a good chance it does. The Cavaliers place a big value on analytics and Hunter & Williams both shine in that area.

Player Analytics go far beyond simple stats.

Just because Hunter and Williams are productive multi-year players doesn’t mean they are algorithm darlings.

Taking young players and forecasting future performance based on tendencies is another large part of it.

They very well may take two older guys, but it’s not due to the reasons you suggest. It’s because they feel them to be the best long term NBA prospects in those spots.

I can also assure you that none of the players we draft will have anything to do with John Beilein’s age (66).

 

[catfish]

I think there’s a good chance it does. The Cavaliers place a big value on analytics and Hunter & Williams both shine in that area.

Most statistical analysis starts with age. The older you are the less good you are going to get

 

[sailfish]

Player Analytics go far beyond simple stats.

Just because Hunter and Williams are productive multi-year players doesn’t mean they are algorithm darlings.

Taking young players and forecasting future performance based on tendencies is another large part of it.

They very well may take two older guys, but it’s not due to the reasons you suggest. It’s because they feel them to be the best long term NBA prospects in those spots.

I can also assure you that none of the players we draft will have anything to do with John Beilein’s age (66).

The NBA Draft is a projection, but for some prospects more than others. Taking younger, developmental prospects who are closer to their floor than their ceiling requires patience and an understanding that the coaches & front office are in this together, for the long haul. Beilein is one of the older coaches in the NBA and has undoubtedly wants to win ASAP.

Keeping the soon-to-be 31 year old Kevin Love, as opposed to trading him for younger assets, may be the biggest ‘tell’ of what this franchise is thinking. It’s why I fully expect the Cavaliers to choose more finished prospects come Thursday. Only time will tell if it’s the right direction, as it very well could lead us back to the overachieving days of the Mike Fratello-coached Cavs teams.

 

[catfish]

I think you are 180 degrees wrong on many fronts about what the CAVS are looking for.

 

[AussieCavFan]

I think there's a good likelihood we are taking 3 first rounders in this draft. So I don't believe we are going to go all ready made or all projective type players.

The front office is going to hedge their bets on bringing in guys ready now and guys with upside who might need some time. Going all in on potential is a danger that a 2nd year GM isn't going to risk, just like going all in on ready made plug and play low ceiling guys is going to keep you in the late lottery for a long time.

 

[dark2332]

The NBA Draft is a projection, but for some prospects more than others. Taking younger, developmental prospects who are closer to their floor than their ceiling requires patience and an understanding that the coaches & front office are in this together, for the long haul. Beilein is one of the older coaches in the NBA and has undoubtedly wants to win ASAP.

Keeping the soon-to-be 31 year old Kevin Love, as opposed to trading him for younger assets, may be the biggest ‘tell’ of what this franchise is thinking. It’s why I fully expect the Cavaliers to choose more finished prospects come Thursday. Only time will tell if it’s the right direction, as it very well could lead us back to the overachieving days of the Mike Fratello-coached Cavs teams.

John Beilein is a coach who loves the development aspect of this.

Every single coaching interview they’ve conducted has emphasized player development and teaching the game of basketball.

Same for Bickerstaff. Same for Gottlieb.

His age has nothing to do with this.

At his own press conference, he sat in front of all of us and said that he knows this is going to take time, and he embraces that challenge. It’s his favorite part of coaching. When asked about his age, he said it’s just a number—his 80 year old sister is still working full time.

This team has a strategic plan. Koby has discussed it, and we’ve also heard his hirings discuss the development plan.

It’s going to take time, but they’re doing this the right way.

You keep saying “Beilein’s old; they want to win now.”

That’s simply untrue. We aren't making “win now” moves. It would be foolish to do so. They are looking to do this in a sustainable fashion and—similar to the college game—build a program. The “Spurs of the East” if you will.

As for Kevin Love, they extended him because he deserved it and because it bought them time to trade him. In the meantime, he’s a wonderful locker room presence, leader, and helps the young guys develop on the floor.

That said, if he hadn’t been hurt last season, I fully believe the Cavs would have shopped him hard at the deadline.

In fact, they continue to shop him right now for the right deal. There’s no sense of urgency at this point, the extension allows for it to run its course naturally. If nothing presents itself this offseason, they’ll take him into the season with a young roster. A strong first half of the season increases the likelihood that he’s dealt at the deadline.

You continue to state opinions as facts when they are simply untrue based on everything we’ve been hearing from our insiders.

 

[sailfish]

John Beilein is a coach who loves the development aspect of this.

Every single coaching interview they’ve conducted has emphasized player development and teaching the game of basketball.

Same for Bickerstaff. Same for Gottlieb.

His age has nothing to do with this.

At his own press conference, he sat in front of all of us and said that he knows this is going to take time, and he embraces that challenge. It’s his favorite part of coaching. When asked about his age, he said it’s just a number—his 80 year old sister is still working full time.

This team has a strategic plan. Koby has discussed it, and we’ve also heard his hirings discuss the development plan.

It’s going to take time, but they’re doing this the right way.

You keep saying “Beilein’s old; they want to win now.”

That’s simply untrue. We aren't making “win now” moves. It would be foolish to do so. They are looking to do this in a sustainable fashion and—similar to the college game—build a program. The “Spurs of the East” if you will.

As for Kevin Love, they extended him because he deserved it and because it bought them time to trade him. In the meantime, he’s a wonderful locker room presence, leader, and helps the young guys develop on the floor.

That said, if he hadn’t been hurt last season, I fully believe the Cavs would have shopped him hard at the deadline.

In fact, they continue to shop him right now for the right deal. There’s no sense of urgency at this point, the extension allows for it to run its course naturally. If nothing presents itself this offseason, they’ll take him into the season with a young roster. A strong first half of the season increases the likelihood that he’s dealt at the deadline.

You continue to state opinions as facts when they are simply untrue based on everything we’ve been hearing from our insiders.

Don’t misunderstand me- what I state aren’t facts, they’re just my opinion. As we all know, what teams say and what they do aren’t always the same. We will obviously know much more after the draft. Personally, I don’t believe the Cavs are shopping Kevin Love, as you apparently do. Beilein legitimately seems to be looking forward to coaching him.

 

[dark2332]

Don’t misunderstand me- what I state aren’t facts, they’re just my opinion. As we all know, what teams say and what they do aren’t always the same. We will obviously know much more after the draft. Personally, I don’t believe the Cavs are shopping Kevin Love, as you apparently do. Beilein legitimately seems to be looking forward to coaching him.

I think Beilein loves smart basketball players, and I do think he's glad to have Kevin Love around to help with a young roster's development. That said, I think all parties know that he's likely dealt when the right opportunity presents itself. It very well may be at this year's deadline--if not this offseason.

The Cavs are extremely open to trading him, but they aren't in a spot where they just "have" to ship him off immediately. Kevin's content and engaged with the young guys. This isn't a situation where he's causing problems because we're struggling to win. There's a very real understanding from everyone involved where the Cavaliers currently are as a team.

 

[sailfish]

I think Beilein loves smart basketball players, and I do think he's glad to have Kevin Love around to help with a young roster's development. That said, I think all parties know that he's likely dealt when the right opportunity presents itself. It very well may be at this year's deadline--if not this offseason.

The Cavs are extremely open to trading him, but they aren't in a spot where they just "have" to ship him off immediately. Kevin's content and engaged with the young guys. This isn't a situation where he's causing problems because we're struggling to win. There's a very real understanding from everyone involved where the Cavaliers currently are as a team.

That’s good. I’m sure the Cavs are mindful that their 2020 first round pick will go to Atlanta if it falls outside of the top 10 picks. If they can succeed in delaying that obligation to Atlanta, for one more season/draft, then in becomes two 2nd round picks in 2021. That would be a big win for the Cavs. Everyone loves to win, but losing that pick would set the rebuild back.

Paying Kevin Love $30 million to sit and protect that pick, rather than play him and possibly lose it, makes senses strategically, but certainly not financially. There’s also the whole ‘depreciating asset’ aspect of things.

 

[dark2332]

That’s good. I’m sure the Cavs are mindful that their 2020 first round pick will go to Atlanta if it falls outside of the top 10 picks. If they can succeed in delaying that obligation to Atlanta, for one more season/draft, then in becomes two 2nd round picks in 2021. That would be a big win for the Cavs. Everyone loves to win, but losing that pick would set the rebuild back

Absolutely. That 1st round pick, guaranteed, will not be conveying to Atlanta. I don't think this team is talented enough--even with great coaching--to win 35 games anyway.

However, if they're on pace for 30-32 wins, I would expect--similar to this year--player resting and ending the year on a losing streak to fall in that 25-27 win area and a sure Top 5 pick pre-lottery.

This is if Love isn't dealt. I honestly believe the plan is to deal him by the deadline after a strong 20/10 first-half. Of course, they'll be resting him throughout the year, "veteran" days off here and there for record maintenance.

You also have to remember, of the five veteran expiring contracts--Delly, Clarkson, Thompson, Henson, and Knight--2 or 3 of them will also be shipped out in salary dump deals where we acquire an asset for a bad two-year contract. This will also influence our back-half of the season record.

I think Clarkson is the most likely to be gone by the deadline. He's productive enough and young enough that a playoff team may covet a bench scorer. The league is wide open this year. Thompson may also have value beyond his contract. The others are straight expiring money, and we are going to keep a few and let them expire for our own cap situation.

 

[Ozone]

Absolutely. That 1st round pick, guaranteed, will not be conveying to Atlanta. I don't think this team is talented enough--even with great coaching--to win 35 games anyway.

However, if they're on pace for 30-32 wins, I would expect--similar to this year--player resting and ending the year on a losing streak to fall in that 25-27 win area and a sure Top 5 pick pre-lottery.

This is if Love isn't dealt. I honestly believe the plan is to deal him by the deadline after a strong 20/10 first-half. Of course, they'll be resting him throughout the year, "veteran" days off here and there for record maintenance.

You also have to remember, of the five veteran expiring contracts--Delly, Clarkson, Thompson, Henson, and Knight--2 or 3 of them will also be shipped out in salary dump deals where we acquire an asset for a bad two-year contract. This will also influence our back-half of the season record.

I think Clarkson is the most likely to be gone by the deadline. He's productive enough and young enough that a playoff team may covet a bench scorer. The league is wide open this year. Thompson may also have value beyond his contract. The others are straight expiring money, and we are going to keep a few and let them expire for our own cap situation.

much more likely to see Kevin Love retire in a Cavs jersey than be moved since nobody is giving up good assets for his contract along with his injury history.
Knight and Henson or Knight and Thompson are the most likely salary dumps imo.
I think Cavs see Clarkson as a core piece and the offer for him would have to be significant.
Overall I could see them overvaluing win now players and taking Hunter who is Harrison Barnes only a slightly better defender , and having no problem staying in the high lottery once they realize he is a bust compared to other high ceiling options they passed on. He will never be worth the $ at 5 or even 8.
Some think his all around game makes him a safe pick, but there isn't 1 thing he does at an elite level not 1.
at 21 going on 22 soon it would be a foolish decision to presume he was held back at Virginia when that same system is what has overrated his game.