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Mr. Orange

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Why have kids?

Sure, kids seem fun when they are 3-10 and they aren't yours...but in this world? Many of my coworkers have troubled adult children, there is a severe lack of social mobility in the world today, life is very very challenging as adults. I also have a number of friends who now have young kids and some have flat out told me not to do it. And most seem to have had kids to give meaning to THEIR lives. Not so much because life is so great we must create new humans so they can experience it. No...it's I always wanted kids. I want to have a family. I this...I that. My sister had kids to save her marriage...and guess how that worked out... and now there are two new humans who have to navigate this world and deal with societal pressures because two twenty-somethings wanted to save their relationship. It's batty I tell you.

And of course your parents want you to have kids....to give meaning to their lives again. Grandkids represent hopes and dreams..and young kids are cute. The reality is your dullard adult children likely did not achieve those same hopes and dreams. (for most people).

I certainly understand why people end up having kids, but philosophically speaking why do it? Must we keep the species going?

I don't dislike kids, I just wonder why keep the cycle going?

1. Become adult
2. Search for meaning in life
3. Have children to give life meaning. Live through children lives.
4. Children become adults.
5. Children search for meaning in life.
6. Children have children to give life meaning.
7. Repeat ad infinitum.

Even back in the day people had children so they could help farm. Is that really a good reason?

And before you reply with "My life was never more complete than it is now that I have kids." Again, that means you had kids for you. I just am not sure I get it.
 
Looking at my 8 month old daughter right now as I type this crying hysterically because I won’t let her eat my phone charger....

Wouldn’t trade it for any thing in the world...

I think people have kids because there’s a part of them that desire something more than just something for themselves (tho it still remains for them— hard to explain).

The caring for someone else re-shifts the focus..It is indeed a purpose, it is indeed rewarding..
 
I think about this topic a lot. I am 30 and my wife is 25, and i know she wants kids. But what I grew up with was a mother that was pissed and frustrated all of the time because her life became her kids and she never really got fufilled in anything else.

Now my older brother and sister are popping out kids like rabbits. But what I notice is they are no longer going on vacations, enjoying themselves, etc. It is all about the kids. Your perception of the world completely changes because there is a human life in the balance and it is your job to take care of it and raise it.

On the other hand. Life is more fun with more people around you. Events, weddings, get togethers, holidays, etc. Can you see yourself being alone late into life and still being happy with it? Sure. But will you have more joy with family around you? Maybe.

Right now I can live very selfishly. Indulging in what I want to when I want to. I am not ready to give this up.
 
I'm a big believer in "life stages" and I don't know who originally told me about it. If you are in a place where you aren't ready to have kids or even don't see yourself ever having kids, fine. That was me well into my early 30s. I wanted to move to different places, date and not settle down yet, etc.

When my now wife and I got together, we we're still partying until two AM, but settling down a bit more. For many people I know they keep the party going and plan vacations a couple with kids can't easily go on. Friends of mine who put off kids also bought a house first, which I now wish I did in many ways. However, we were both mentally ready to be parents. Something shifted for us both, part of it was seeing some baby boomer couples who had been married for decades who wish they had kids looking back.

Both my wife and I tend to have nurturing personalities, so it just clicked. I don't judge couples who opt for a dog instead, for example. I do expect people at a different life stage - either not having kids or their kids are already grown - to try to show some empathy towards the folk in my life stage. When I watch National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation, I wanted the Griswalds and their yuppy neighbors to learn to get along. Now I'm living that Chevy Chase life and occasionally some neighbors don't bother to put themselves in another person's shoes. When some neighbor is partying in their back yard at 1am I can get a little pissed off. We all have different life stages the hard part is respecting what others around you have chosen for that time of their lives.
 
Even back in the day people had children so they could help farm. Is that really a good reason?

It is if they wanted to eat.

I certainly understand why people end up having kids, but philosophically speaking why do it? Must we keep the species going?

It is inherent in life forms, the desire to propagate their species. Use whatever you want to justify it or deny it, but it's not going to stop the vast majority of people from continuing to make more people.
 
Looking at my 8 month old daughter right now as I type this crying hysterically because I won’t let her eat my phone charger....

Wouldn’t trade it for any thing in the world...

I think people have kids because there’s a part of them that desire something more than just something for themselves (tho it still remains for them— hard to explain).

The caring for someone else re-shifts the focus..It is indeed a purpose, it is indeed rewarding..

Thanks for the reply, but also sort of proves my point. Most people are have kids because they want a purpose. And now they have created a human that will have to deal with pain, suffering, death. All because their parent wanted a "purpose" or companionship.

In a society with things like Universal Basic Income, Universal Healthcare, etc etc, I could understand it more. But modern society seems pretty cruel. Don't get me wrong...in my early 20s I wanted kids, but now into my 30s not so sure. Gf and I are having some issues on the topic. I'm sort of just letting of some steam and thoughts here.
 
I think about this topic a lot. I am 30 and my wife is 25, and i know she wants kids. But what I grew up with was a mother that was pissed and frustrated all of the time because her life became her kids and she never really got fufilled in anything else.

Now my older brother and sister are popping out kids like rabbits. But what I notice is they are no longer going on vacations, enjoying themselves, etc. It is all about the kids. Your perception of the world completely changes because there is a human life in the balance and it is your job to take care of it and raise it.

On the other hand. Life is more fun with more people around you. Events, weddings, get togethers, holidays, etc. Can you see yourself being alone late into life and still being happy with it? Sure. But will you have more joy with family around you? Maybe.

Right now I can live very selfishly. Indulging in what I want to when I want to. I am not ready to give this up.

Yeah you are hitting on the cycle I am talking about. It's just something that has been worrying me. I should have had children 5-10 years ago before I started thinking about the topic too much...

It's great that your brother and sister are making their lives all about the kids now that they have had them. Not being in that place yet I just am wondering if it is a responsible thing to do. Certainly is playing God in many ways.

I guess it is coming down to the fear that my adult children will be unhappy...maybe because I am dealing with the drudgery of life and don't have children to give purpose. And hence I ask myself if that is the cycle.
 
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If you want to have kids, have kids. If you don't want to have kids, don't have kids. There's no law or mandate saying you have to do one or the other.

And of course any decision to have kids is going to be based on what the parents want. They're the one having the kid. It's an inherently selfish decision because the one or two of them are going to have to commit their time to raising this person. There's really no way to make the decision to have a kid about anything other than yourselves.
 
If you want to have kids, have kids. If you don't want to have kids, don't have kids. There's no law or mandate saying you have to do one or the other.

And of course any decision to have kids is going to be based on what the parents want. They're the one having the kid. It's an inherently selfish decision because the one or two of them are going to have to commit their time to raising this person. There's really no way to make the decision to have a kid about anything other than yourselves.

I think it's more the existential I am worrying about now. Does a future human want to be here? Should that be our choice to make? Is it the right think to make that decision for someone? (Obviously we have to in order to keep the species alive, but it's still heavy to think about)

EDIT: I should note I've been binge watching West World....
 
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I think it's more the existential I am worrying about now. Does a future human want to be here? Should that be our choice to make? Is it the right think to make that decision for someone? (Obviously we have to in order to keep the species alive, but it's still heavy to think about)

EDIT: I should note I've been binge watching West World....
Life is gonna get lonely as you get older if you don't have a kid. Have you considered that part of the equation?
 
Life is gonna get lonely as you get older if you don't have a kid. Have you considered that part of the equation?

Of course. And doesn't that seem rather selfish?

Hey person...I didn't want to be lonely so I made you... now you deal with the pressures of society, expectations, mortgages, fear of dying, the unknown, depression, heartbreak, (I mean there are obviously good things in life too) and all of this because I don't want to be lonely as I get older. Here we are, now entertain us. Oh, and don't be a loser, move out by 25, and also be a doctor. And we want grandchildren. Also don't disappoint me.

This is all philosophical by the way. I've def had pregnancy scares so sure it may happen. I just never really thought about it too much from the kids perspective.
 
Of course. And doesn't that seem rather selfish?

Hey person...I didn't want to be lonely so I made you... now you deal with the pressures of society, expectations, mortgages, fear of dying, the unknown, depression, heartbreak, (I mean there are obviously good things in life too) and all of this because I don't want to be lonely as I get older. Here we are, now entertain us. Oh, and don't be a loser, move out by 25, and also be a doctor. And we want grandchildren. Also don't disappoint me.

This is all philosophical by the way. I've def had pregnancy scares so sure it may happen. I just never really thought about it too much from the kids perspective.
1. I doubt you would opt not to have been given a life now that you've experienced it

2. Your life is going to be boring as fuck and meaningless if you don't have a family and are 50

3. Selfishness is hardly a bad thing. It's biologically imperative we look out for our best interests
 
Is anyone else seeing the irony of Mr. Oranges post here? Some guy goes on a public forum to write about his own existential crisis about the meaning of life... because being a parent is inherently selfish?

At my heart I'm a Humanist. I believe in enjoying everything and celebrating life on Earth. With that is an acceptance that you play a part in other people's enjoyment of life on this Earth. A good life also includes not creating a worse existence for others. So this is really about how much a person would enjoy the ups and downs of being a good parent. If that isn't what you want to do, don't do it. Just research what it means to be a good parent.
 
Is anyone else seeing the irony of Mr. Oranges post here? Some guy goes on a public forum to write about his own existential crisis about the meaning of life... because being a parent is inherently selfish?

At my heart I'm a Humanist. I believe in enjoying everything and celebrating life on Earth. With that is an acceptance that you play a part in other people's enjoyment of life on this Earth. A good life also includes not creating a worse existence for others. So this is really about how much a person would enjoy the ups and downs of being a good parent. If that isn't what you want to do, don't do it. Just research what it means to be a good parent.

I mean, I'm just having a conversation man...rather than get stuck in ones own head, and believe me...breaching this topic with the gf did NOT lead to a good conversation lol.

I like your second paragraph. That's the kind of stuff I am looking for with this post. I'm not attacking anyone's decision to have children, like I said it is philosophical.
 

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