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Cleveland Guardians Offseason Discussion 2021-22

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A note from a fan regarding corner outfielders..

"... Landing Suzuki for just money will allow them to move Teo or Lourdes for a 2b or Starting pitching ..."
 
Renfroe is in RF not LF... I know that sounds strange but one of his strengths is a plus arm which plays better in RF. Also majority of his career has been in RF, so I think in smaller parks, he definitely will play much better there on paper.

Your numbers mean though at the end of the day less than 50% of projected starters in MLB had that WAR, which means production for OFs around baseball is honestly down. Sounds like we almost may have to deal with promotion from spots within...

Do you know which ones with a WAR above 2 are available in free agency?
Let's say we get someone like Pham. He is someone who does have health concerns so I think he wouldn't be a true "every day" player but we would hope could start about 80% of games. Straw, as an every dayer would be expected to play around 90% of games. This leaves about 1.3 OF slots open on average per game, which can be filled with some combination of Zimmer/Kwan/Palacios from the left or Mercado/Rosario from the right. I personally don't think that's a bad place to be in. But... take 2.1 OF slots open on average per game and you're forced to play some of these guys against the wrong pitchers, etc, and overall just not achieving as good of results.
 
Let's say we get someone like Pham. He is someone who does have health concerns so I think he wouldn't be a true "every day" player but we would hope could start about 80% of games. Straw, as an every dayer would be expected to play around 90% of games. This leaves about 1.3 OF slots open on average per game, which can be filled with some combination of Zimmer/Kwan/Palacios from the left or Mercado/Rosario from the right. I personally don't think that's a bad place to be in. But... take 2.1 OF slots open on average per game and you're forced to play some of these guys against the wrong pitchers, etc, and overall just not achieving as good of results.
If A Rosario is moving to the OF, he needs to be out there on a regular basis.
Moving him back & forth between OF/LF & SS is a good way to screw things up worse.
Should Gimenez be struggling at SS, one the young kids should get the opportunity at SS, not A Rosario..

Now an in-game move due to injury or game substitution need is a different matter - Tito should make best moves possible to win the game
 
If A Rosario is moving to the OF, he needs to be out there on a regular basis.
Moving him back & forth between OF/LF & SS is a good way to screw things up worse.
Should Gimenez be struggling at SS, one the young kids should get the opportunity at SS, not A Rosario..

Now an in-game move due to injury or game substitution need is a different matter - Tito should make best moves possible to win the game

I actually think Amed should be in LF if we keep him... we have a ton of MIF talent, let them get the 2B/SS spot...
 
I have been biggest Rosario to OF guy. Yet, with lockout, it becomes harder as he needs to track BP in Feb but is locked out. Key is if we land someone else for 2nd OF. If no one, then Rosario/Jones is needed.

Yet, agree Gimenez then Arias then Rocchio for SS.
Rosario then Freeman then Chang/Miller for 2nd
3rd OF is Zimmer then Kwan then Palacios for me
Even 1st is open for me ... Bradley then Chang then Jones

Its a prove it or move it season for me. Enough people coming up to move people around to see what works.
 
Do you know which ones with a WAR above 2 are available in free agency?
FanGraph has tracker with 2021 and proj 2022 WAR. Decent OF in our price range is getting thinned out.

It may not take long for Zimmer and his 1.1/1.2 War in 299 ABs to look good in comparison as a starter.
 
FanGraph has tracker with 2021 and proj 2022 WAR. Decent OF in our price range is getting thinned out.

It may not take long for Zimmer and his 1.1/1.2 War in 299 ABs to look good in comparison as a starter.

From that list, you sure we cannot convince Dolan to sign Bryant? Honestly there isn't a lot of options out there...
 
From that list, you sure we cannot convince Dolan to sign Bryant? Honestly there isn't a lot of options out there...

In reality, you are looking at a Pham, Rosario or Pederson if that wallet can do 2yr for $9-$10 per yr. And, as others have said, once CBA is approved, few NL teams may need to hit OF market for DH candidate. It maybe why Soler and Cruz are waiting out market (plus age). Renfro may not even play OF for Milwaukee. Think this is why those who see the market are not as optimistic about FA market ... either trade or roll with what you got.

Edit - And in reality, Pederson is not a great fit for the team as there are few if any right handed bats to sub for him (just Mercado).
 
In reality, you are looking at a Pham, Rosario or Pederson if that wallet can do 2yr for $9-$10 per yr. And, as others have said, once CBA is approved, few NL teams may need to hit OF market for DH candidate. It maybe why Soler and Cruz are waiting out market (plus age). Renfro may not even play OF for Milwaukee. Think this is why those who see the market are not as optimistic about FA market ... either trade or roll with what you got.

Edit - And in reality, Pederson is not a great fit for the team as there are few if any right handed bats to sub for him (just Mercado).

Prices are just way too high on those guys...if I am running a roster, I am not putting that amount of money up for that amount of production... I'd rather just see who can step up in house at that point...
 
Renfroe is in RF not LF... I know that sounds strange but one of his strengths is a plus arm which plays better in RF. Also majority of his career has been in RF, so I think in smaller parks, he definitely will play much better there on paper.

Your numbers mean though at the end of the day less than 50% of projected starters in MLB had that WAR, which means production for OFs around baseball is honestly down. Sounds like we almost may have to deal with promotion from spots within...

Do you know which ones with a WAR above 2 are available in free agency?
Trust me, I know who Hunter Renfroe is and his strengths/weaknesses. If LF for a team fits his abilities better and they have the other covered then he'll be a LFer. He's played both. While his arm is definitely RF worthy, his range may be better suited for LF in Milwaukee. I don't know that's the case, but hypothetically.........
 
If A Rosario is moving to the OF, he needs to be out there on a regular basis.
Moving him back & forth between OF/LF & SS is a good way to screw things up worse.
Should Gimenez be struggling at SS, one the young kids should get the opportunity at SS, not A Rosario..

Now an in-game move due to injury or game substitution need is a different matter - Tito should make best moves possible to win the game
Mad, I like your takes so I'll ask, do you really think they'll stoop so low as to play Amed Rosario in LF? I liked the idea of him transitioning to CF, but then they acquired Straw who is actually a converted SS with eerily similar tools. I don't think there is a chance in hell that Tito will play Amed in a corner OF. If he does then we're in a world of hurt.

I think he's likely traded. Very likely actually because somebody is gonna miss out on the big named SS and Amed is in the next tier. There will be a decent market for Amed when things pick back up IMO.
 
What's the likelihood that Chernoff will make a trade for a player/prospect with a big bat and little to no experience in a corner OF spot? I mentioned Vientos awhile ago, but what about someone like Bobby Dalbec? Could he be converted to LF effectively? I just feel like we've pigeon holed ourselves into thinking that it has to be an established player(positionally speaking). I doubt CA or MC look at it that way. The problem now being the lockout and the ability to get reps in. I don't know, but that thought just popped into my head and it opens up a plethora of other options.
 
Mad, I like your takes so I'll ask, do you really think they'll stoop so low as to play Amed Rosario in LF? I liked the idea of him transitioning to CF, but then they acquired Straw who is actually a converted SS with eerily similar tools. I don't think there is a chance in hell that Tito will play Amed in a corner OF. If he does then we're in a world of hurt.

I think he's likely traded. Very likely actually because somebody is gonna miss out on the big named SS and Amed is in the next tier. There will be a decent market for Amed when things pick back up IMO.
So long as Amed is not the regular CLE SS in 2022 I will be ok. Trade him or move to another spot on the field.

With all the middle INF options, moving him to 2b still causes problems. LF is an option due to fewer options.

I do not view it as trouble if he is in LF. While I would prefer Palacios to get the playing opportunity, after watching Mercado/ Zimmer struggle at the plate the few years, I’d play Amed in LF before those 2 to start most games.

Consider this: is Tito more likely to play Amed in the LF or Palacios??
 
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What's the likelihood that Chernoff will make a trade for a player/prospect with a big bat and little to no experience in a corner OF spot? I mentioned Vientos awhile ago, but what about someone like Bobby Dalbec? Could he be converted to LF effectively? I just feel like we've pigeon holed ourselves into thinking that it has to be an established player(positionally speaking). I doubt CA or MC look at it that way. The problem now being the lockout and the ability to get reps in. I don't know, but that thought just popped into my head and it opens up a plethora of other options.
It's a good idea.. perhaps, not with Dalbec.. (if there was a race between Bobby D and a statue.. even money the statue wins).. To fill this "bill".. a clearer idea of what you're thinking would be appropriate.. eg.. a CF'er should have a run tool of 50 or better.. The RF/LF'er you're describing starts out as being a right handed hitter or switch hitter.. What else?
 
I'm not advocating for Ahmed, because while I liked his overall play in 2021, I think we can get better.....but, for those more knowledgeable(or those who think they are), is there any belief that Ahmed has hit his 'peak'? He's 25, right? He's played essentially 2 full seasons in the ML, is there not the potential for elevated play from him? Not that he's going to turn into a 35 homer guy, but has he reached a level already that 'he is who he is'?
 

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