Cleveland Guardians Offseason Discussion 2021-22

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BimboColesHair

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DCTribefan

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In the short term, its always tough to lose a FO piece. In the long run its a good thing.

In football, they often talk about coaching trees....

Sabin's, Woody Hayes', Paul Brown's.

Seemingly every year they lost an assistant, who went on to success. And seemingly they hired another one who was just as good. And none of those guys stopped winning.

Nobody talks about Rod Chudzinskis coaching tree.

***********
Having former front office personnel in other orgs opens lines of communications that otherwise wouldn't exist.

I wonder if this hiring opens up trade possibilities with the Cubs.
Of course you wondered this?:celb (13):
 

CATS44

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Of course you wondered this?:celb (13):
I'm always open to additional possibilities...lol.

The greatest GM in baseball history was Branch Rickey...and he was always looking for possibilities.

It led to him signing Jackie Robinson...and beginning the first farm system, the first permanent spring training facility, and picking a youngster in the R5 by the name of Clemente.

There are always possibilities, and the more possibilities you embrace, the more they turn into probabilities.
 
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CATS44

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I like everything simplified down to the most basic. I like Brantleys no movement, no stride swing. Keep it simple, stupid.

Many years ago I was the sales manager for a large NE Ohio HVAC concern. As such, I attended many sales seminars with my staff. All of them were pure hocum, except one. And the whole lesson in that one was done in one five minute...and very crude...story. I doubt that story is being used today, but it made the point.

It made no mention of sales techniques and all that garbage...just the most basic thing needed for successful sales.

(I'm getting to the reason for this post as it applies to this off season.)

A man walks into a bar and walks up to the prettiest gal, and tells her he wants to take her back to his room. She slaps him and security asks him to leave.

The man goes to the next bar and does the same thing. The bouncer throws him in the alley.

On to the next bar, where two bouncers leave marks all over his body.

This goes on all night, but sooner or later that man gets a pretty gal. His clothes are ripped and his body aches, but he finally succeeded.

Persistence.

This is exactly what our FO must do. Persistently pursue upgrades. Upgrades that at first glance seem impossible. Upgrades in any direction, from any organization. There is a seeming impossibility out there that can be had. There may be two. It may take until the beginning of spring training.

This FO was persistent in acquiring Franmil and a LH starter. It was persistent in acquiring seven players, including Quantrill. It was persistent in acquiring Straw.

This FO may be the tightest lipped of any in baseball. Except for the Bauer trade, in which the parameters and org were rumored eight months earlier, every trade it has made in the last decade has seemingly come out of left field.

We have been debating what the FO should do, but the FO is already doing it, and has been since at least the all star break. The parameters of perhaps six separate trades have already been established. Now, it comes down to which set of parameters best fits the often shifting desires of both teams. One of the things that has to be determined before any trade is the level of spending that Mr Dolan sets. That should come fairly soon.
 

Gson

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I like everything simplified down to the most basic. I like Brantleys no movement, no stride swing. Keep it simple, stupid.

Many years ago I was the sales manager for a large NE Ohio HVAC concern. As such, I attended many sales seminars with my staff. All of them were pure hocum, except one. And the whole lesson in that one was done in one five minute...and very crude...story. I doubt that story is being used today, but it made the point.

It made no mention of sales techniques and all that garbage...just the most basic thing needed for successful sales.

(I'm getting to the reason for this post as it applies to this off season.)

A man walks into a bar and walks up to the prettiest gal, and tells her he wants to take her back to his room. She slaps him and security asks him to leave.

The man goes to the next bar and does the same thing. The bouncer throws him in the alley.

On to the next bar, where two bouncers leave marks all over his body.

This goes on all night, but sooner or later that man gets a pretty gal. His clothes are ripped and his body aches, but he finally succeeded.

Persistence.

This is exactly what our FO must do. Persistently pursue upgrades. Upgrades that at first glance seem impossible. Upgrades in any direction, from any organization. There is a seeming impossibility out there that can be had. There may be two. It may take until the beginning of spring training.

This FO was persistent in acquiring Franmil and a LH starter. It was persistent in acquiring seven players, including Quantrill. It was persistent in acquiring Straw.

This FO may be the tightest lipped of any in baseball. Except for the Bauer trade, in which the parameters and org were rumored eight months earlier, every trade it has made in the last decade has seemingly come out of left field.

We have been debating what the FO should do, but the FO is already doing it, and has been since at least the all star break. The parameters of perhaps six separate trades have already been established. Now, it comes down to which set of parameters best fits the often shifting desires of both teams. One of the things that has to be determined before any trade is the level of spending that Mr Dolan sets. That should come fairly soon.
Spectrum Mobile TV/Phone service has the same idea.. persistence.. I can guarantee one thing.. whenever those assholes call on the phone, for the fifth or sixth time that day..they get an earful and then some.. and NO ORDER/INTEREST in buying anything at anytime for any price from them. IF there is an opportunity to have a conversation with anyone looking for a recommendation.. here is it..

STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM THOSE ASSHOLES at Spectrum..

Persistence works when you have no other choice.. seeing more than one side of a deal/idea.. allows insight into making the sale not only more realistic.. but usually yours..
 

Wham with the Right Hand

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This FO may be the tightest lipped of any in baseball. Except for the Bauer trade, in which the parameters and org were rumored eight months earlier, every trade it has made in the last decade has seemingly come out of left field.

We have been debating what the FO should do, but the FO is already doing it, and has been since at least the all star break.
This is what I have been thinking for some time. We all knew Kluber, Bauer, CC, Lindor, and Clevinger would be traded. But before those trades were announced I don't recall seeing the names of Clase, Reyes, Naylor, Hedges, Quantrill, A. Rosario, or Gimenez discussed on this board, or any of the prospects that came with them. The Maton/Diaz for Straw trade came out of left field.

So I don't bother to get involved in discussions of who the Indians should target in trades. None of the players whose names have come up on this board ever made it to Cleveland, if I'm not mistaken, and none of the guys who we traded for were discussed as possibilities before the trade.

The Indians are very tight lipped and they know who their trade targets are. We simply don't and have not been any good at figuring it out in advance.
 

BimboColesHair

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From 2019, albeit when I was asked about a potential Kluber trade to San Diego...

Acceptable?

A top pitching prospect in AA ball or higher, a solid hitting prospect, an MLB ready bat at a position of need with 4-5 years of cheap team control left, and a solid reliever with a couple years of arbitration left.

So something like Logan Allen, Josh Naylor, Franmil Reyes, and someone like Kirby Yates.

3/4 ain't bad, I guess.
 

sportscoach

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This is what I have been thinking for some time. We all knew Kluber, Bauer, CC, Lindor, and Clevinger would be traded. But before those trades were announced I don't recall seeing the names of Clase, Reyes, Naylor, Hedges, Quantrill, A. Rosario, or Gimenez discussed on this board, or any of the prospects that came with them. The Maton/Diaz for Straw trade came out of left field.

So I don't bother to get involved in discussions of who the Indians should target in trades. None of the players whose names have come up on this board ever made it to Cleveland, if I'm not mistaken, and none of the guys who we traded for were discussed as possibilities before the trade.

The Indians are very tight lipped and they know who their trade targets are. We simply don't and have not been any good at figuring it out in advance.

Reyes name was mentioned actually a fair amount cause posters wanted his bat and he was a so-so OF (better DH/American League hitter). Gimenez did come up if we made a trade with the Mets (well I did mention him at least).

But for the most part we don't know which players the Guardians will get in a move and that's part of the fun guessing trades. We only have the MLB.com and other online sources to say which prospects they would target and they do have prospect type it feels like so I lean towards ones on MLB.com scouting reports say that they are the type. Sad to say even in OOTP, i don't even remember all the names of the players I trade for since their profile from the scouting is way more important than their names. (I traded for Straw in OOTP so I was happy when we got him. He was my bench guy since he could play all INF and OF positions)
 

CATS44

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In late 2018 the rumors began of a Tribe-Padres swap including Bauer.

The names being bandied about were Hedges, Renfroe, and Margot. I posted that the targets would be Reyes, one of Allen, Lauer, or Lucchesi, and two prospects.

Last season in my annual target posts, I listed two from the Mets....Amed and Dominic Smith. With all the MIF prospects already in hand, I never considered Gimenez, who at the time was a higher rated MIF prospect than anybody we had.

It should be noted that in almost every trade we've made involving one of our pitchers... back about twenty years...we get at least one pitcher in return.

Two for CC.
One for Colon.
Two for Lee.
One for Kluber.
Two for Bauer.
Two for Clevinger.
One for Cookie.
One for Pestano.
One for White and Pomeranz.
One for Sheffield and two relief prospects.

We've traded a lot of very good MLB pitchers and three high end pitching prospects, but we've also refilled the ranks at the same time.
 

KluberSociety

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FWIW I think bottom top 10 seems ridiculous to me for Jones, considering we're talking about guys like Planez and Gonzalez who are clearly way below Jones in any kind of evaluation. I'd like to see him apply his same level of scrutiny to those 2...

I think the clearest thing is the drop off after the top 6. Obviously it's hard to compare guys like Palacios and Kwan to Halpin and Greene but all of them have significant organizational value.
 

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