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Cleveland Guardians Offseason Discussion 2021-22

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Jones is certainly a polarizing prospect, but it if it looks a guy has holes in his game, to a guy like me... He is rounding out the top 5ish, but will need to comeback healthy and deliver in 2022 or a lot of guys will be passing him. Maybe not such much in the "rankings" at first but with promotions to The Show.
 
Jones is certainly a polarizing prospect, but it if it looks a guy has holes in his game, to a guy like me... He is rounding out the top 5ish, but will need to comeback healthy and deliver in 2022 or a lot of guys will be passing him. Maybe not such much in the "rankings" at first but with promotions to The Show.
Rankings always seem a bit slow to adapt to the present times. Jones is going to be 24 next year so at some point he's got to show he's more than a forever prospect like Zimmer but he seems to have the wrong mentality. It's hard to coach someone who already has a vision of themselves being Thome in mind. The FO wants Jones to be the best version of Jones and will try to help lead him there if he's willing.
 
Rankings always seem a bit slow to adapt to the present times. Jones is going to be 24 next year so at some point he's got to show he's more than a forever prospect like Zimmer but he seems to have the wrong mentality. It's hard to coach someone who already has a vision of themselves being Thome in mind. The FO wants Jones to be the best version of Jones and will try to help lead him there if he's willing.

Where did this come from?
 
In late 2018 the rumors began of a Tribe-Padres swap including Bauer.

The names being bandied about were Hedges, Renfroe, and Margot. I posted that the targets would be Reyes, one of Allen, Lauer, or Lucchesi, and two prospects.

Last season in my annual target posts, I listed two from the Mets....Amed and Dominic Smith. With all the MIF prospects already in hand, I never considered Gimenez, who at the time was a higher rated MIF prospect than anybody we had.

It should be noted that in almost every trade we've made involving one of our pitchers... back about twenty years...we get at least one pitcher in return.

Two for CC.
One for Colon.
Two for Lee.
One for Kluber.
Two for Bauer.
Two for Clevinger.
One for Cookie.
One for Pestano.
One for White and Pomeranz.
One for Sheffield and two relief prospects.

We've traded a lot of very good MLB pitchers and three high end pitching prospects, but we've also refilled the ranks at the same time.
...or, as I like to say.. the perfunctory stolen/added/extorted future trade piece/cy young winner added to balance the deal.. Some more significant than others..
 
See the last page (link: https://realcavsfans.com/index.php?...fseason-discussion-2021-22.51064/post-3627161 ), the source isn't exactly reliable but I believe it more than I don't.

Regardless, Jones was pretty solid after his horrid start, but not dominating AAA. I'm hopeful that he'll find it but his 2021 was not a success.
.256/.371/.469
14.6% BB
28.0% K
126 wRC+

Over his final 89 games (he played 99 total)

I’d deem that season a success.

I’d also say that using that Thome line as a negative is a big stretch of logic.
 
@BimboColesHair maybe @MadThinker88 @petes999 @Tondo

The last four guys, Durango, Burgos, Johnathan Rodriguez and Pries, do you or anyone else know anything about them/do we need to know anything about them? The other ones I have at least seen/heard Scouting report on them...

They aren't exactly getting a lot of attention in here, but the ACL Indians have the best offense in their league by a 35 run margin. Ton of high ceiling offensive talent there right now.

Isaiah Greene: .292/.421/.368, mentioned in here the Brantley vibes he is giving the FO staff who were around when Brantley was acquired, he's going to go through a similar developmental path. He has a very clean, very simple short swing which doesn't produce power yet but hopefully will grow in to. Well above average hitting approach and eye for his age. Can play all 3 OF spots effectively, but his raw speed isn't translating to game speed yet.

Junior Sanquintin: .289/.347/.547, another switch-hitting MIFer with pop acquired through their International signings of late. Ultra aggressive swinger with good pop from both sides of the plate. Tied for the ACL lead in HRs, leads the league in RBI, and is 6th in the league in slugging. Playing him predominantly at 1B right now, but I think he eventually winds up at 3B.

Milan Tolentino: .301/.362/.496, 4th round pick from 2020, getting promoted to Lynchburg. Took advantage of the development site in AZ after he was drafted and didn't play to strengthen up and is showing more pop than anyone expected him to show at 19. Really good defensively at SS and 2B, his glove will carry him a long way. Cleaned up his swing a lot during his off year, already has a nice lefty approach to left-center, but all of his pop is pull power right now.

Jorge Burgos: .353/.463/.461, 2019 International signing, another guy going to Lynchburg. Soft hitting lefty, but a terrific hitting approach which has led him to be the ACLs leading qualified hitter at the time of his promotion. Like Greene, very professional approach at the plate and good pitch/plate recognition. His body has a lot longer to go than Greene, he is still a small kid. Gap-to-gap hitter so he hits a lot of doubles, but will see HR pop come as he matures. Most likely ends up in a corner OF spot so it'll almost have to come.

Jose Pastrano: .256/.392/.410, biggest International signing from 2019, made his pro debut this year and is off to a solid start. Yet another switch-hitting MIFer with a lot of intriguing tools. Lot of early Rocchio to his game, down to the clean mechanics from both sides of the plate and a gap-to-gap hitter with no HR pop right now but you can see it developing in time. Promotion of Tolentino means he should play more SS moving forward. Has played a good 2B up to this point, and like every other MIFer in their system has played SS, 2B, and 3B at points in the season.

Richard Paz: .393/.487/.721, he has always had one of the best eyes in the organization since he was signed in 2017. Bat has always lagged behind a bit until this season. 3rd consecutive year at the rookie level, so will need to see it translate as he moves up, but has always had a body type and swing that suggests he could be an above average hitter with some pop. Like Lavastida, bilingual catcher that speaks fluent English and Spanish, which is huge for that position. Defense behind the plate is still a bit of a work in process, but the tools are there.

Skeiling Rodriguez: .319/.397/.594, gives off some Valera vibes with how smooth his swing is from the left side. And he wasn't signed with that swing at all, the Indians have worked with him on some things (and he has worked with Valera) and it is paying off big for him. Behind the rest of his very heralded 2017 International class, and like Paz 3rd year at the rookie level. Needs to show it up at the next level. He is a straight corner OFer.

Dayan Frias: .279/.370/.423, stop if you heard this before...recent International signing, MIFer, switch-hitter, intriguing tools. Playing and hanging in the Columbian Winter League prior to this season has brought along his game at the plate quite a bit. High confidence player, solid defensively at SS, 2B, and 3B, repeatable and clean mechanics from both sides of the plate, and good plate command at a young age. Him and Pastrano should share SS duties the rest of the season.

Luis Durango: .300/.399/.400, another highly touted 2019 guy making his pro debut this season. Instantly the fastest guy in their system, leads the ACL in steals by a wide margin. Speed translates well to the field, especially in CF. Dude covers a ton of ground and will 100% stick in CF moving forward. Has shown more pop than I expected, but wasn't sure what to expect from him after having TJ in 2020. Mechanics are a little loud and need simplified. Will be curious to see if his speed sticks as his body matures and he adds weight, cause he is going to need to add weight.

Lot of position player talent coming from Arizona and the Dominican soon.
 
How dare he say he has aspirations to be like the guy in the HOF that also has a statue in Progressive Field
Ya I considered that a good thing. Don’t understand how it is being construed negatively.
 
A question...

If Laureano was a free agent, how much would you be willing to pay him for a one year deal? Two years? Three years?

Would you be willing to pay him $10 mil for one year?

$15 mil for two?

$22-24 mil for three?

Just spit balling here...

Laureano will get just under $3 mil this year. He is under control for three years. A normal progression in arby would be 3-5-7, a little more if he continued as a 4 WAR player.

Elvis Andrus will get $14.25 mil next year, but $7.25 of that will be paid by the Rangers. He also has a vesting option that kicks in at 550 PAs next year, which he won't get.

His total cost is $7 mil. It's also possible that he could be flipped, if we paid most of it...say $5 mil.

Anyway, Oakland would love to get out from under his contract. They would at least listen to an offer for Laureano that included taking Andrus salary off their hands.

Laureano and Andrus would cost us just under $10 mil next year, maybe a little less. Thats more bang for the buck than any FA OF we could sign....and we'd still have Laureano for two more years at well below market value.
 
A question...

If Laureano was a free agent, how much would you be willing to pay him for a one year deal? Two years? Three years?

Would you be willing to pay him $10 mil for one year?

$15 mil for two?

$22-24 mil for three?

Just spit balling here...

Laureano will get just under $3 mil this year. He is under control for three years. A normal progression in arby would be 3-5-7, a little more if he continued as a 4 WAR player.

Elvis Andrus will get $14.25 mil next year, but $7.25 of that will be paid by the Rangers. He also has a vesting option that kicks in at 550 PAs next year, which he won't get.

His total cost is $7 mil. It's also possible that he could be flipped, if we paid most of it...say $5 mil.

Anyway, Oakland would love to get out from under his contract. They would at least listen to an offer for Laureano that included taking Andrus salary off their hands.

Laureano and Andrus would cost us just under $10 mil next year, maybe a little less. Thats more bang for the buck than any FA OF we could sign....and we'd still have Laureano for two more years at well below market value.

I wouldn't touch Andrus with a ten foot pole for that price...

Laureano I am okay with getting, but it wouldn't be at the A's price...
 
I wouldn't touch Andrus with a ten foot pole for that price...

Laureano I am okay with getting, but it wouldn't be at the A's price...
I'm not talking about touching him with a ten foot pole. I'm talking about swallowing his contract in order to get Laureano without spending a fortune in prospects.

Id easily pay Laureano $22-24 mil for three years.
 
Also.

Why are we talking about what a teenager said 6 years ago in pre-draft meetings with organizations and giving him shit for it?

Also.

Thank God those scouts don't work for Cleveland's baseball team.
Was that actually from 6 years ago? I'll admit I saw Glendale and might have misread. Do you not think he has a difficulty with lefties and/or high heat which can be exploitable at the MLB level?
 
Was that actually from 6 years ago? I'll admit I saw Glendale and might have misread. Do you not think he has a difficulty with lefties and/or high heat which can be exploitable at the MLB level?
He’s already stated that Jones mechanics project well against lefties even if his numbers at the lower levels don’t reflect that.

His numbers this season against LHP were actually quite good though. Hopefully, it’s a sign of things to come.

Never heard so much as a whisper about Jones struggling with heaters though.
 

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