Cleveland Guardians Offseason Discussion 2021-22

[KluberSociety]

I never followed this, is it strange for AAA players to be there?

 

[BimboColesHair]

I never followed this, is it strange for AAA players to be there?

No, for guys who want to get more work/the organization wants to work with more in a controlled situation before sending most of them home to work on their game. Every level is always there.

This is essentially the minor leaguers exit interview.

 

[sportscoach]

And when I say "wrong" I don't mean guys like Lavastida and Noel aren't playing IF/OF at times.

It's instructs, guys play everywhere. They aren't going to have a kid who just caught almost 500 innings after an entire season off then go and catch everyday at instructs. They're also going to see what everyone can do and if anyone can show position flexibility.

But Lavastida will be a C only in 2022 and Noel will be a 1B/3B in 2022. And those positions are where they will get most of their time at in instructs. That's why it's wrong.

Honestly what I was feeling when I saw it, they were just playing guys at different places to see how they would do...

I said in the past Lavastida played INF in college plus with a solid bat, it wouldn't surprise me see him play 1B/3B for some innings to see how he could do! I don't think we need him to normally play any SS...

Noel in the OF would be interesting to see... my guess is they want to see how he can handle LF since that would give him another option to make sure his bat is always in the lineup.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Goes without saying. Do not get your hopes up for unrealistic scenarios, such as Matt Olson.

Extension or 2, early arb (or early cheap extension) or pre-arb trade for MLB level corner OF talent, 1 or 2 short term 1 year signings (think similar to Rosario) to plug a hole, and some minor league FAs in the OF, 1B, C, and RP. That is where they'll live this winter/spring, if you put a gun to my head right now.

So since it's not likely any of our prospects are going to make the club out of spring training, you're saying we should expect people like Dexter Fowler and Ryan Zimmerman? That's not too optimistic.

 

[KluberSociety]

Honestly what I was feeling when I saw it, they were just playing guys at different places to see how they would do...

I said in the past Lavastida played INF in college plus with a solid bat, it wouldn't surprise me see him play 1B/3B for some innings to see how he could do! I don't think we need him to normally play any SS...

Noel in the OF would be interesting to see... my guess is they want to see how he can handle LF since that would give him another option to make sure his bat is always in the lineup.

I would think that RF would be more of a natural fit for him, due to his arm being likely much better (all I know is he plays 3B) than his mobility.

 

[sportscoach]

I would think that RF would be more of a natural fit for him, due to his arm being likely much better (all I know is he plays 3B) than his mobility.

I always end up putting the lesser athlete in Cleveland's OF in LF because of the wall, you don't exactly have to as good of range in a sense. His arm does say he could play some RF as well. I just am not sure he will be quick enough for the OF personally so either way, it's interesting they are trying him in the OF.

 

[KluberSociety]

I always end up putting the lesser athlete in Cleveland's OF in LF because of the wall, you don't exactly have to as good of range in a sense. His arm does say he could play some RF as well. I just am not sure he will be quick enough for the OF personally so either way, it's interesting they are trying him in the OF.

The dimensions in Progressive Field are basically identical, left-center is 5 feet shorter and the wall is higher. The vast majority of balls will either fall before the wall in both fields, hit off the wall in both fields, or go over the wall in both fields. Also we only play half of games there. I don't know how many more balls get hit into LF or RF though with our righty heavy starting staff (pulls are more common but switch hitters will generally hit from the left side against us). All in all though, I'd be shocked if that throw from 1st to 3rd on a single with a guy on base isn't the biggest difference and it's RFs that need the arm for it.

 

[BimboColesHair]

And for my finale, Ty Van Burkleo is now the longest tenured hitting coach in baseball.

There's a chance that won't last.

 

[DerekG123]

Goes without saying. Do not get your hopes up for unrealistic scenarios, such as Matt Olson.

Extension or 2, early arb (or early cheap extension) or pre-arb trade for MLB level corner OF talent, 1 or 2 short term 1 year signings (think similar to Rosario) to plug a hole, and some minor league FAs in the OF, 1B, C, and RP. That is where they'll live this winter/spring, if you put a gun to my head right now.

Another offseason of spinning the wheels.
Jeez, you cant possibly convince me that an all out rebuild isnt better than trying this same mess yet again.

 

[BimboColesHair]

How do you complete an “all out rebuild” when 95% of your roster is made up of pre-arb young guys and your minor league system is bursting at the seams in the upper and lower levels?

 

[CATS44]

Dolan and the FO are not going to spin their wheels this off season. They've done that for two years in order to reset the team and the finances.

Spinning wheels means going backward, like the Rockies. You either go forward, or you go backward. There is no in between.

If spinning wheels was the plan, Antonetti and Chernoff would have left for greener pastures...and more money. Tito wouldn't be trying to comeback.

Spinning wheels means losing young talent thru Rule Five this year and next.

An org in any business doesn't spin its wheels when rebranding. It does quite the opposite, by doing something to create excitement for its new brand.

Every sign...every action this FO has made over the past two years...indicates a forward moving off season.

The FO plans to put a Guardians team on the field that will make a lot of noise.

 

[sportscoach]

How do you complete an “all out rebuild” when 95% of your roster is made up of pre-arb young guys and your minor league system is bursting at the seams in the upper and lower levels?

I guess just trade JRam, Rosario, Hedges, Perez etc for more pre-arb guys and see what happens... lose ten prospects in the Rule 5 draft while trying to audition guys in every spot?

@DerekG123

What you arent getting is the fact we are like the youngest team in the league and we went 80-82, while we had a 90+ pace team a year ago... If our SPs stayed healthy and Eddie produced, we would have went for a wildcard. I'll take that as a great rebuild year... oh wait... we skipped the rebuilding years cause of the pitching factory and now that class of 17 and 18 are ready to make some big league splashes...

The only reason why the retool even happened is we just didn't get enough hitters produced internally to replace the 16 core. Now on paper we have the replacements coming in 22/23 while we have one of the best SP rotations in baseball... mix in the right trade/veteran signing(s), We are a playoff team with almost all the players on the roster being under 28 years old... isn't that what we needed to do?

 

[CATS44]

I guess just trade JRam, Rosario, Hedges, Perez etc for more pre-arb guys and see what happens... lose ten prospects in the Rule 5 draft while trying to audition guys in every spot?

@DerekG123

What you arent getting is the fact we are like the youngest team in the league and we went 80-82, while we had a 90+ pace team a year ago... If our SPs stayed healthy and Eddie produced, we would have went for a wildcard. I'll take that as a great rebuild year... oh wait... we skipped the rebuilding years cause of the pitching factory and now that class of 17 and 18 are ready to make some big league splashes...

The only reason why the retool even happened is we just didn't get enough hitters produced internally to replace the 16 core. Now on paper we have the replacements coming in 22/23 while we have one of the best SP rotations in baseball... mix in the right trade/veteran signing(s), We are a playoff team with almost all the players on the roster being under 28 years old... isn't that what we needed to do?

Excellent

 

[CDAV45]

Another offseason of spinning the wheels.
Jeez, you cant possibly convince me that an all out rebuild isnt better than trying this same mess yet again.

Well that's good because nobody in their right mind would even attempt to convince you that an "all out rebuild" is needed. Relax Derek, this team is going to be just fine.

 

[Kevalier]

Goes without saying. Do not get your hopes up for unrealistic scenarios, such as Matt Olson.

Extension or 2, early arb (or early cheap extension) or pre-arb trade for MLB level corner OF talent, 1 or 2 short term 1 year signings (think similar to Rosario) to plug a hole, and some minor league FAs in the OF, 1B, C, and RP. That is where they'll live this winter/spring, if you put a gun to my head right now.

Damn, well, I'll still cling to my dream of the Guards swinging a deal this offseason for Matt Olson and his 5 fWAR, 39 HRs & 146 wRC+. Just take a look at his Baseball Savant page and admire this level of beauty:


Having said that, here are two names which fit the description of "early arb corner OF talent" that had above-average seasons at the plate in 2021 and could be feasibly be acquired.

Ramon Laureano (Oakland)

2021 Statistics (*season was abruptly ended following his 80 game suspension on August 6th)
2.1 fWAR
111 wRC+
.327 wOBA
.246/.317/.443 slash line in 378 plate appearances
14 home runs
7.1% BB rate
25.9% K rate
.196 ISO

​

- 27 years old​

- Entering his first year of arbitration and doesn't reach free agency until after the 2024 season​

- Oakland is at a crossroads as they approach a record-high payroll due to arbitration raises and could very well look to deal players like Olson, Matt Chapman and Laureano who are all arbitration eligible.​

-He still has 20 games to serve in his suspension and just underwent core surgery last week, but he would represent a significant upgrade to our current corner outfield situation and should be entering his prime years over the next three seasons of control the team would have over him.​

​

Ian Happ (Chicago Cubs)

2021 Statistics:
1.3 fWAR
103 wRC+
.328 wOBA
.226/.323/.434 slash line in 535 plate appearances
25 home runs
11.6 BB%
29.2 K%
.209 ISO

-27 years old​

-Entering ARB 2 season and will reach free agency at the end of the 2023 season​

-Although his numbers overall on the season are slightly above average, he was one of the better hitters in the sport over the past couple months with a wOBA of .361 from August to the end of the regular season.​

-The Cubs are firmly in rebuild mode and Happ only having two years left of control makes him a strong trade candidate.​

​

Considering the underwhelming FA OF market after Starling Marte and Kris Bryant (neither of which the Guardians will sign), I would prefer to see them pursuit trades for both Laureano and Happ instead of throwing money at 33 year old Mark Canha or 34 year old Tommy Pham. Let's imagine for a second that the team is able to swing these trades and sign Yan Gomes in free agency. Here's what the potential lineup could look like once Laureano returns from his suspension:

1. Myles Straw-CF
2. Amed Rosario-SS or 2B
3. Jose Ramirez- 3B
4. Ramon Laureano- RF
5. Franmil Reyes- DH
6. Ian Happ- LF
7. Josh Naylor or Bobby Bradley- 1B
8. Yan Gomes- C
9. Andres Gimenez- 2B or SS

I still refuse to abandon the Matt Olson dream, but this lineup would certainly be formidable and should allow us to contend with the strength of our rotation and enough help in the back end of the bullpen to go along with Clase.