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Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

Kiddo

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SGA ranked #10

Just missed the cut: Anfernee Simons, Portland Trail Blazers; Jarrett Allen, Brooklyn Nets; Bam Adebayo, Miami Heat; Jarrett Culver, Minnesota Timberwolves; Zach Collins, Portland Trail Blazers; Malik Beasley, Denver Nuggets; OG Anunoby, Toronto Raptor


The total disrespect for Collin Sexton is ridiculous. Not even mentioned in an article about best players 23 and under yet SGA is ranked 10th best. As Cavs fans are we really over valuing a 20 year old kid who scored 17 pts and shot 40% from 3 as a rookie?
 

LeeBuckeye

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I remember reading the NBA Best 25 under 25 and yearning for a list that had just the top 23 years under 23 going before the season list (Sorry Donovan Mitchell). I'm thrilled and satisfied with the results and can't wait to see if Zion can replicate a 40.0 PER for the Pelicans.
 

Randolphkeys

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SGA ranked #10

Just missed the cut: Anfernee Simons, Portland Trail Blazers; Jarrett Allen, Brooklyn Nets; Bam Adebayo, Miami Heat; Jarrett Culver, Minnesota Timberwolves; Zach Collins, Portland Trail Blazers; Malik Beasley, Denver Nuggets; OG Anunoby, Toronto Raptor


The total disrespect for Collin Sexton is ridiculous. Not even mentioned in an article about best players 23 and under yet SGA is ranked 10th best. As Cavs fans are we really over valuing a 20 year old kid who scored 17 pts and shot 40% from 3 as a rookie?
You may not like what I have to say, but SGA was probably more impressive to close the season than Sexton. Shai averaged 14.4 points, 4.4 assists and 3.4 rebounds while shooting 52.0 percent from the floor and 50 percent from the three-point line over the final 19 games of the season in March and April. During that run, he also carried above average defensive analytic numbers compared to Sexton, who remained near the bottom of all NBA guards.

Then in the playoffs, the Clippers pushed the Warriors to a sixth game. SGA averaged 13.7 points and 3.2 assists on 46.7 percent shooting and 50 percent three-point shooting in that series, and I don't know if you can find a tougher sample size than six games against the Warriors.

I need to see Sexton do more than create his own offense to take the next step. That includes playmaking for his teammates and defense. In his best stretch of the season, Knight and Delly were really playing point guard with Sexton concentrating on scoring and off guard skills. He needs to become a scoring guard who can also make others better.
 

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You may not like what I have to say, but SGA was probably more impressive to close the season than Sexton. Shai averaged 14.4 points, 4.4 assists and 3.4 rebounds while shooting 52.0 percent from the floor and 50 percent from the three-point line over the final 19 games of the season in March and April. During that run, he also carried above average defensive analytic numbers compared to Sexton, who remained near the bottom of all NBA guards.

Then in the playoffs, the Clippers pushed the Warriors to a sixth game. SGA averaged 13.7 points and 3.2 assists on 46.7 percent shooting and 50 percent three-point shooting in that series, and I don't know if you can find a tougher sample size than six games against the Warriors.

I need to see Sexton do more than create his own offense to take the next step. That includes playmaking for his teammates and defense.

I wouldn't argue that Sexton's a better prospect than SGA. But they finished in a virtual tie in all-rookie voting, and Sexton's significantly younger. They should be pretty close together in any reasonable ranking of top young players.
 

Randolphkeys

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I wouldn't argue that Sexton's a better prospect than SGA. But they finished in a virtual tie in all-rookie voting, and Sexton's significantly younger. They should be pretty close together in any reasonable ranking of top young players.
Yeah, we agree that in general the people covering the NBA are too quick to judge. John Stockton was one of the great point guards in NBA history but wasn't even a regular starting point guard in the NBA until he was 25. Part of that haste to judge has to do with year round coverage and play in youth leagues, which causes its own problems.

However, at the heart of it I'm not saying Sexton is what he is and can't improve. I'm just saying Cavaliers fans should look past the raw scoring totals to see why other rookies were considered more successful last season. We know that Sexton scores well enough to be a rotation player in the NBA. He needs work in other areas to be considered one of the brightest young potential stars in all of basketball.
 

Cavatt

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Just a reminder after the allstar break...

Per game scoring and shooting splits in March 2018:

  • Trae Young – 23.4 Points Per Game (43/33/84)
  • Collin Sexton – 22.4 Points Per Game (51/45/83)
  • Luka Doncic – 21.8 Points Per Game (39/22/65)
I think Collin is going to be a really elite scoring guard. He says he has been working on playmaking and Beilein has already emphasized that for him. I can't wait to see what he can do. Defense continues to be my biggest worry.
 

cavsfever

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The analytics people are incredibly down on Colin Sexton as a defensive player. Here from The Ringer "young core" rankings talking about Sexton (https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/7/23/20703286/nba-young-core-rankings)

He looks like a respectable offensive player. A late-season shooting surge pushed his 3-point percentage up to 40 percent, and his poor assist totals are an eyesore but not disastrously bad. On defense, though, Sexton was almost reprehensibly awful as a rookie. By real plus-minus, Sexton figured as the second-worst defender in the NBA last season, ahead of only Trae Young. By FiveThirtyEight’s new defensive stat DRAYMOND, which assesses a player’s ability to affect an opponent’s shot, Sexton was the league’s worst defender.
I am not sure how you make this kind of sweeping judgement about a rookie guard thrown into such a big role on a team with very poor team defense, I think it is too early to judge, but that is the kind of thing going around.
 

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The analytics people are incredibly down on Colin Sexton as a defensive player. Here from The Ringer "young core" rankings talking about Sexton (https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/7/23/20703286/nba-young-core-rankings)



I am not sure how you make this kind of sweeping judgement about a rookie guard thrown into such a big role on a team with very poor team defense, I think it is too early to judge, but that is the kind of thing going around.
Yeah I mean also they are high on Trae Young who is both a worse defender and a less efficient player. Collins efficiency on high volume is almost unheard of as a Rookie, so saying he looks like and ok scorer is not really true. He looks like he might be an elite scorer. I mean I just posted those post allstar numbers where his scoring efficiency blows both Trae and Doncic out of the water.

I also think that Longabardi had a much worse affect on this team than anyone realizes. His scheme straight up does not work and is overly complicated. Guys over switched and it made them really vulnerable to mismatches and lazy man defense.

Cedi was like 4th or 5th worst defender in the NBA, and that is just not true. There are 80 guys worse than him at defense. It was scheme and inexperience. I'd bet 100 bucks the team defense is not historically bad this year and people talk about how surprised the Cavs defense has come, because it was an absolute shit show.

They had Zizic switching on the perimeter at times. It was ridiculous.
 

The Human Q-Tip

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I'm willing to cut everyone some slack on individual defensive stats last year, but it was made apparent that Sexton does not like being physical on defense. That's not a scheme issue - some guys just don't like contact. I personally think that's a pretty big deal. Delly, slow feet and all, was a good defender (especially off ball) in part because he seemed to actually enjoy contract. But if you don't like bodying up on guys, or forcing your way past screens, etc., your defensive upside is going to be very limited.

I'm willing to give him another shot to see if increased strength makes him more comfortable with contact. If not...there's really no way to avoid him remaining a significant defensive liability.
 

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I'm willing to cut everyone some slack on individual defensive stats last year, but it was made apparent that Sexton does not like being physical on defense. That's not a scheme issue - some guys just don't like contact. I personally think that's a pretty big deal. Delly, slow feet and all, was a good defender (especially off ball) in part because he seemed to actually enjoy contract. But if you don't like bodying up on guys, or forcing your way past screens, etc., your defensive upside is going to be very limited.

I'm willing to give him another shot to see if increased strength makes him more comfortable with contact. If not...there's really no way to avoid him remaining a significant defensive liability.
I don't know. I think success begets success on defense. Nobody had confidence in that scheme. We saw vets take tons of plays off even in 18. No one played defense until the playoffs, and that stink has been left on the team. I know there were reports Collin didn't like contact. I thought that about him in regards to going to the basket early in the season settling for jump shots, and that began to change significantly where he was willing to mix it up later on.

The team fared worse with Hill as the starter. Was he a worse defender? How much did Drew and the other coaches who were lame ducks hold their guys accountable. How much did the front office ask them to emphasize defense? I get what you are saying, but I am going to wait to see how Bickerstaff implements the defense. Just look at Larry Nance's defensive numbers on the Lakers and on the Cavs. It is night and day.
 

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I don't know. I think success begets success on defense. Nobody had confidence in that scheme. We saw vets take tons of plays off even in 18. No one played defense until the playoffs, and that stink has been left on the team. I know there were reports Collin didn't like contact. I thought that about him in regards to going to the basket early in the season settling for jump shots, and that began to change significantly where he was willing to mix it up later on.

The team fared worse with Hill as the starter. Was he a worse defender? How much did Drew and the other coaches who were lame ducks hold their guys accountable. How much did the front office ask them to emphasize defense? I get what you are saying, but I am going to wait to see how Bickerstaff implements the defense. Just look at Larry Nance's defensive numbers on the Lakers and on the Cavs. It is night and day.
Like I said, I'm willing to give him a second bite at the apple on being more physical on defense. But if that doesn't change quickly - and that's what I saw as well - then scheme won't matter. He'll always be a shitty defender.
 

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natedagg

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“Making sure I make plays for my teammates,” Sexton said. “Just because that was one aspect that I knew I needed to improve on. So I’ve got to make shots easier on my teammates when the play comes down to it."

I love how Collin knows and is actively trying to address his weaknesses and freely shares it too.

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/ny-collin-sexton-cavs-nba-draft-darius-garland-20190722-3vqjnn4rifarrfsowtp4im3ygm-story.html
He also worked to put on some muscle mass which should help him out finishing around the rim but also fighting thru screens and being more physical. Given his age, like he doesn’t even have grown man strength yet.

But look at the body improvement. Dude is yolked :chuckle:1565444163082.jpeg
 

Sir'Dom Pointer

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Sexton has a small frame, so I don't expect him to add too much muscle mass. I do think he is functionaly strong because of his lower body...he has a lot of potential there.
 

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