Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

[Nphan]

What team has a 6th man as talented as Sexton? Collin is already a more prolific scorer than guys like Lou Williams. He would be starting on most teams in the league. The Mavs would give up their entire cupboard (it's admittedly bare though) to add Collin as a Robin to Doncic. Man it gets so depressing here sometimes with the way fans try to pigeonhole our players. It's so rare to find a 21 year old that can score the ball like Collin and his work ethic fits right in with the Cleveland culture. He loves playing here. The crazy thing is despite their small size Sexton and Garland's offensive games compliment each other too. At this stage of the rebuild the Cavs can live with having those 2 start together.

Yeah. No way he would accept a 6th man role when hes the 2nd best player on the team behind Allen.

 

[saymac]

RIGHT ON Some people would complain if they won the lottery

 

[weepinwillow]

He would be starting on most teams in the league.

This is an interesting point.. what do you think you could get for Sexton if you offered him for trade around the NBA? Maybe could offer Collin and Cedi which gives you a $12-15 million salary slot you could take back.
The reason I ask, I don't think the rest of the league looks at Collin with the same regard. I think his teammates get frustrated with him breaking the offensive flow to go get a shot or when he misses them on breaks or on the wing. (Vardon stated as much the other day)
I do love Collin's work ethic and the chip on his shoulder he plays with. I love that he improves his game. What drives me nuts he that he will relentlessly improve his shot, his handles, etc., but he's still not improving his general court vision, which would make his game as well as the team's performance skyrocket. It's literally the one thing holding him back and for some reason it feels like the one thing he's least open to improving.
The pass he made to Stevens that ended up being the winning shot, that needs to be the normal pass. It was novel for Collin, so much so it was kind of jarring (and the Hawks didn't bother defending the back line probably because they are the Hawks, but maybe because they figured swallowing up Sexton would lead to him taking a shot that wasn't available) So we know it's in him, but it needs to happen all the time.

The crazy thing is despite their small size Sexton and Garland's offensive games compliment each other too.

This I don't agree with. Yeah, Garland tries to play more of a PG role and Sexton is more of a scorer, but really both need a G who doesn't need to dribble to get his offense going to be a solid complimentary running mate.
And defensively, forget about it. They are not good together or individually on defense. Collin is better simply because he has the motor and the that chip I mentioned.

 

[inliner311]

What team has a 6th man as talented as Sexton? Collin is already a more prolific scorer than guys like Lou Williams. He would be starting on most teams in the league. The Mavs would give up their entire cupboard (it's admittedly bare though) to add Collin as a Robin to Doncic. Man it gets so depressing here sometimes with the way fans try to pigeonhole our players. It's so rare to find a 21 year old that can score the ball like Collin and his work ethic fits right in with the Cleveland culture. He loves playing here. The crazy thing is despite their small size Sexton and Garland's offensive games compliment each other too. At this stage of the rebuild the Cavs can live with having those 2 start together.

I think the flaw with Sexton and Garland is the playing style of Garland paired with his size. If you want to run a small backcourt in the modern NBA, you want to teams to have to size down to keep up with the two guards. The fact that Garland plays slow and refuses to run in the full court, teams don't have to be worried about being run off the court.

If Garland was taller they would compliment each other well because you wouldn't be giving up anything on the defense side of the ball. Sexton seems like the more special player of the two of them. If people think Sexton is a 6th man than what is Garland? I don't think he has shown that he is someone you build around and I'm not even sure he has shown he is a clear starter in the league.

I just don't think Sexton, Garland, or even Okoro are pieces that fit together to make a winning formula. To me, Sexton at least is gives you something to build around. Bring in another speedster guard and try to run teams off the court. Or bring in a tall PG that can masks the flaws of Sexton playing as a small SG.

 

[OptimusPrime]

What drives me nuts he that he will relentlessly improve his shot, his handles, etc., but he's still not improving his general court vision, which would make his game as well as the team's performance skyrocket. It's literally the one thing holding him back and for some reason it feels like the one thing he's least open to improving.

This is objectively wrong. Not only statistically, but watching him play. He makes at least one or two passes a game that he never would have even attempted before. He's not Chris Paul, but he's never going to be nor does he need to be. But he has absolutely improved his vision and passing.

 

[ansatsusha80]

I think the flaw with Sexton and Garland is the playing style of Garland paired with his size. If you want to run a small backcourt in the modern NBA, you want to teams to have to size down to keep up with the two guards. The fact that Garland plays slow and refuses to run in the full court, teams don't have to be worried about being run off the court.

If Garland was taller they would compliment each other well because you wouldn't be giving up anything on the defense side of the ball. Sexton seems like the more special player of the two of them. If people think Sexton is a 6th man than what is Garland? I don't think he has shown that he is someone you build around and I'm not even sure he has shown he is a clear starter in the league.

I just don't think Sexton, Garland, or even Okoro are pieces that fit together to make a winning formula. To me, Sexton at least is gives you something to build around. Bring in another speedster guard and try to run teams off the court. Or bring in a tall PG that can masks the flaws of Sexton playing as a small SG.

I will say this,Cedi is the only player that's willing to push the pace with Sexton. I don't understand,why this team doesn't push it more often when that's one of Sexton's strengths. I've been saying this since last season.

All you have to do is have Sexton pushing the ball and have someone near the three-point line. It will force the defender to make a decision to defend the layup or the three-point shot.

 

[Cavatt]

This is objectively wrong. Not only statistically, but watching him play. He makes at least one or two passes a game that he never would have even attempted before. He's not Chris Paul, but he's never going to be nor does he need to be. But he has absolutely improved his vision and passing.

Yeah his assists are at 4.2 after being stuck at 3 the past 2 years. His assist percentage has gone from 15% to 20%. That isn't so bad. He gets an assist 1 in 5 times he initiates.

8.8 potential assist this year when I believe it was 6 last year.

 

[kidduck]

His learning curve on passing and general court awareness has improved, but is not
a finished product.

You also have to consider the crazy lineups and schemes he has been exposed to during
his pro career.

Then remember he was a one and done so he entered the league pretty raw when
it comes to knowing the game of basketball beyond personal scoring.

I'd like him to realize that just because he takes the ball aggressively into
the lane, it doesn't mean the result will be a good shot attempt for himself.
If he just had a bit more court awareness of where his teammates are(and
this is a combination factor of experience and a consistent system so
everyone has a clue where to be. But youngsters can only learn thru
game experience, trial and error.

He has just enough of those aborted drives followed by a frantic
look for an outlet( his last resort sometimes) to be annoying.

However, he is trending the right way.

 

[weepinwillow]

This is objectively wrong. Not only statistically, but watching him play. He makes at least one or two passes a game that he never would have even attempted before. He's not Chris Paul, but he's never going to be nor does he need to be. But he has absolutely improved his vision and passing.

he misses plays constantly, 1 or 2 isn't nearly enough. You don't need him to be CP, you need him to see the weakside of the offense and avoid one on one when it's not needed. His improvement was best seen in the final stretch of last year and the start of this year. It has noticeably tailed off though.
I'm not as down on Sexton as I was heading into this year, and I think I'm more for keeping him and moving Garland than vice versa (I think it's a one or the other prop now), but he needs to stop being top 20 in field goal attempts year in and year out (3 years running). It's to the detriment of his team's performance and teammates performance. Cavs won't make the playoffs as anything other than an "8th seed and out" team with Collin leading them in usage, imo. He's kind of a better shooting but smaller version of Ricky Buckets right now.

 

[OptimusPrime]

he misses plays constantly, 1 or 2 isn't nearly enough. You don't need him to be CP, you need him to see the weakside of the offense and avoid one on one when it's not needed. His improvement was best seen in the final stretch of last year and the start of this year. It has noticeably tailed off though.
I'm not as down on Sexton as I was heading into this year, and I think I'm more for keeping him and moving Garland than vice versa (I think it's a one or the other prop now), but he needs to stop being top 20 in field goal attempts year in and year out (3 years running). It's to the detriment of his team's performance and teammates performance. Cavs won't make the playoffs as anything other than an "8th seed and out" team with Collin leading them in usage, imo. He's kind of a better shooting but smaller version of Ricky Buckets right now.

First of all even if that were true, none of that means he isn't improving now and won't continue to improve in the future.

And second, on this team he absolutely should be leading them in usage. He is by far their most efficient perimeter scorer. If they bring in someone better and he can't play off of them, I'm sure I'll complain about it. But I don't think it would be a problem since he's even more efficient off the ball.

 

[weepinwillow]

And second, on this team he absolutely should be leading them in usage. He is by far their most efficient perimeter scorer.

He could drop his usage from 27.7 down to 24 and he'd still lead the team in usage while getting more out of his teammates. And this speaks nothing of teammates who may have just set 2 screens to open up a clean corner 3 from Windler only to have it go completely unnoticed.
You have to trust your ability, and Collin does, but you also have to trust your teammates, and Collin only kind of does.
I want to see Collin trusting his teammates more. It would make him a better player and the Cavs a better team (the gist of my general point on him).

 

[Futuredome]

Colin has the opposite problem from Garland. With Garland, will his balls ever drop meme is glaring pretty large. With Colin, his balls have dropped too much, to the point they are getting kicked around..........and it hurts.

 

[Cavatt]

He could drop his usage from 27.7 down to 24 and he'd still lead the team in usage while getting more out of his teammates. And this speaks nothing of teammates who may have just set 2 screens to open up a clean corner 3 from Windler only to have it go completely unnoticed.
You have to trust your ability, and Collin does, but you also have to trust your teammates, and Collin only kind of does.
I want to see Collin trusting his teammates more. It would make him a better player and the Cavs a better team (the gist of my general point on him).

He'd be better off just letting Garland handle more. He was coring super efficiently to start the year off ball. I think if they are actually able to get Cade for instance, this will be no problem at all. He'll just play more as a 2 and just kill people.

 

[OptimusPrime]

He could drop his usage from 27.7 down to 24 and he'd still lead the team in usage while getting more out of his teammates. And this speaks nothing of teammates who may have just set 2 screens to open up a clean corner 3 from Windler only to have it go completely unnoticed.
You have to trust your ability, and Collin does, but you also have to trust your teammates, and Collin only kind of does.
I want to see Collin trusting his teammates more. It would make him a better player and the Cavs a better team (the gist of my general point on him).

Well his usage rate is the same as last year while his assist rate is up. Which means by definition that his usage rate would be lower if he had the same assist rate as last year. He's shooting less often and assisting more often. In other words, improvement.

 

[daddywags]

he misses plays constantly, 1 or 2 isn't nearly enough. You don't need him to be CP, you need him to see the weakside of the offense and avoid one on one when it's not needed. His improvement was best seen in the final stretch of last year and the start of this year. It has noticeably tailed off though.
I'm not as down on Sexton as I was heading into this year, and I think I'm more for keeping him and moving Garland than vice versa (I think it's a one or the other prop now), but he needs to stop being top 20 in field goal attempts year in and year out (3 years running). It's to the detriment of his team's performance and teammates performance. Cavs won't make the playoffs as anything other than an "8th seed and out" team with Collin leading them in usage, imo. He's kind of a better shooting but smaller version of Ricky Buckets right now.

According to ESPN stats he was 40th in field goal attempts per game in 2018-19, 21st last year and is 25th this year. That's not bad considering we only have 5 players averaging 10 or more FGA per game and two of them are Drummond and Yogi Ferrell. Also, while Sexton is 25th in FGAs he's 23rd in points per game.