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Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

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What Resolves First?

  • Collin Sexton's Restricted Free Agency

    Votes: 19 38.8%
  • Baker Mayfield's Tenure with the Browns

    Votes: 30 61.2%

  • Total voters
    49
  • Poll closed .
Sexton's stats are so much better than Gordon's first few years in Chicago. Both Sexton and Garland's first instinct is to score. Drafting a big playmaking wing in this next draft could potentially solve alot of issues.

While,it's true both are willing passers. I don't understand, why people give them a hard time when they are willing to pass especially with Sexton.


Sexton’s lack of vision (because he does only see the hoop at times) and undersized defense still proves he's not starter worthy on a contending team, and this team will be never be entering a contending stage with plans of starting Garland and Sexton. Sure he'll go get you 30 points, but -30 will come along with it.

He has all the tools to be an unbelievable 6th man. Score, score, score, attempt defense, barely pass.

That's not true and you know it. People like you look at +/- and act like it tells the whole story when it doesn't.

Sexton is the only starter playing with the bench for long periods of time. If,they're not making shots he's the only one that can score and teams are usually trapping him because they know the other four can't score.
 
Basketball-reference.com is great for breaking down games. Click on scores and you get the prior days games. There is a place you can select stats by half or quarter.

Stats have limits though. Okoro stick close to Curry on the perimeter and annoyed him most of the game. Curry never did get his three point shooting on track but he found other ways to score. None of that is evident from stats.

Thanks. I think Okoro played well last night. He hounded Steph.
 
All comes down to coaching,I don't understand, why JB continues to play Sexton with the bench.

Nance and Dellavedova isn't a scoring threat.Teams leave those two wide open because they know they're going to miss.And,you never know what you gonna get from Hartenstein and Prince,mostly with Prince...JB makes no adjustments to the lineup and when he does it's too late..

Wade should be with Sexton atleast he's a scoring threat.

What's up with Dellavedova's shot?
Wade is an acceptable three point shooter if he’s wide open. Other than that he’s no scoring threat. Against a veterans skilled team like the Warriors he’s overmatched, like most of our roster.
 
Sexton’s lack of vision (because he does only see the hoop at times) and undersized defense still proves he's not starter worthy on a contending team, and this team will be never be entering a contending stage with plans of starting Garland and Sexton. Sure he'll go get you 30 points, but -30 will come along with it.

He has all the tools to be an unbelievable 6th man. Score, score, score, attempt defense, barely pass.
Why stop at Sexton, how many players on this team are worthy of being a starter on a contending team?


I was curious about your 30 point -30 take and wanted to confirm based on game logs. His highest scoring games with terrible +/- happened to be against the Warriors (-30) and Toronto (-17) which were both played within the last two weeks in April. If you go 25+ points scored then you can add the Clippers game (-22) in February.

If he starts and plays 30 minutes or if he comes off the bench and plays 30 minutes, that makes a substantial difference in your mind? Team need to add more talent and plays cohesive lineups. I think guys will struggle no matter where they’re placed if the pieces don’t fit. As a result benching him based on arbitrary benchmarks (starter on a contender) and recency bias +/- stat on a bad team with limited scoring option THIS season makes little sense. If they add some talented parts next season that can efficiently score + defend their position thus keeping them in the game longer, then Sexton off the bench will make more sense. We can only hope that who ever they draft is a first option franchise level player.

I still think it was a mistake they didn’t offload Nance for the alleged 2 first round picks that were offered in a deep draft.
 
Why stop at Sexton, how many players on this team are worthy of being a starter on a contending team?


I was curious about your 30 point -30 take and wanted to confirm based on game logs. His highest scoring games with terrible +/- happened to be against the Warriors (-30) and Toronto (-17) which were both played within the last two weeks in April. If you go 25+ points scored then you can add the Clippers game (-22) in February.

If he starts and plays 30 minutes or if he comes off the bench and plays 30 minutes, that makes a substantial difference in your mind? Team need to add more talent and plays cohesive lineups. I think guys will struggle no matter where they’re placed if the pieces don’t fit. As a result benching him based on arbitrary benchmarks (starter on a contender) and recency bias +/- stat on a bad team with limited scoring option THIS season makes little sense. If they add some talented parts next season that can efficiently score + defend their position thus keeping them in the game longer, then Sexton off the bench will make more sense. We can only hope that who ever they draft is a first option franchise level player.

I still think it was a mistake they didn’t offload Nance for the alleged 2 first round picks that were offered in a deep draft.
He’s playing 36 minutes so if we bench him that means someone else gets more minutes. I’d like to know who that mystery player is that would get more minutes and is a better player than Collin. We’re short of scoring and Sexton is our top scorer so that player better bring reliable scoring (Hint: we got nothing).
 
I think Okoro and Garland do look good. I'd be focused on building around those two and Allen primarily.

When Collin is deferring and playing off the ball the entire offense is better. It's not an accident. This is more "in general" than particular to the Golden State loss.

The bar is very low, indeed, then.

Because by no statistical measure do they look good.

Garland looks improved. But not good.

Okoro has most definitely not been good, but you at least see a little potential. But he has not been good.
 
All fair points. I'm just making a case that he can still be an elite scorer off the bench, even if my examples were poorly researched and surface level, lol.
Of course he can be an elite scorer off the bench. He's already pretty much an elite scorer as a starter. Kevin Durant could also be an elite scorer off the bench. That doesn't mean he should be.
 
Of course he can be an elite scorer off the bench. He's already pretty much an elite scorer as a starter. Kevin Durant could also be an elite scorer off the bench. That doesn't mean he should be.
Right, different thread. The reason I can see Sexton coming off the bench over Garland if we move towards a more conventional team with average to above average sized players at each position, Sexton as an elite scorer would benefit from not having to be forced to get other players involved in the offense. Especially to start a game, it's very important that the point guard initiates the offense to get guys in their rhythm. If Sexton becomes that guy, 100% he's the starter over Garland. It's not because people think Garland is better than Sexton... A starting lineup of Garland/Sexton/Okoro just doesn't work. If we do that, we'd need much more size at the 3. I can see Sexton as the 1 or 2 if we draft Cunningham so the two can split the duties of passing, and bring Garland off the bench. It's a situation where our 1-3 are far too small to play competitive defense. It's not a long term solution if we want to make the playoffs and then make a playoff run.

I can see people arguing this strategy if Sexton's scoring was the immediate reason for us winning games and making the playoffs. But the proof right now is, Sexton can get his own but we can't make the playoffs. Yes, we've had injuries, but how many games have we won this season off Sexton's scoring alone?
 
Sexton's +/- was worst than the other starters last night because he was out there with the 2nd unit when they were getting clobbered. Nothing more, nothing less..
From my vantage point both guards fell into some bad habits last night too...As long as the Cavs are still losing there will need to be a scapegoat I guess.
It's funny how noone has posted in the Garland thread since last weekend but everybody runs in here every time there is a loss.
 
Let me try and rephrase...Great, even good players make their teammates better. Sexton makes EVERY player on this team worse, like by a lot. Sexton has no clue how to play great basketball...Cavs will never beat anyone sitting around watching Sexton play Y-Ball...We got a little taste of how good some of the Cavs are when Sexton wasnt playing, everything about the TEAM was better, and would have kept growing. But now, the team is back in reverse because of Sexton. Sexton is a poor mans,,,and I mean poooor, like maybe even almost dead mans James Harden...Did Hardens Rockets ever beat anyone in the playoffs with his talent? Nope. The more Sexton scores and has the ball, the worse off the Cavs are.
 
^You do realize that the Cavs basically beat a G league roster when they played the Hornets the other night? All of their best players including Lamelo and Hayward are on the injured list right now.
Last night was also the first game this entire season the Cavs had their whole starting lineup available (and I'm excluding that game where Love got pulled after one minute). Nance, Allen, and Sexton were all coming off injuries last night.
It's way too early to make any judgments tbh.
 
Sexton's +/- was worst than the other starters last night because he was out there with the 2nd unit when they were getting clobbered. Nothing more, nothing less..

This is simply not true

The adverse is when he subbed out after drawing a foul in the 3rd, we cut their lead in half with the starters and whoever replaced Collin.

Hold the line...

Found it:

Warriors-vs-Cavaliers-Play-By-Play-April-15-2021-ESPN.png

Warriors called timeout after this Nance 3 pointer right in front of their bench. It was a hockey assist Garland created on his drive, when the Warriors converged, kicked it out to Prince who flipped it over to Nance once his man committed to Prince. It was some beautiful basketball.

This group had the game down to 4 late in the 3rd before the refs made that horrible foul call on the clean block from Allen. JB inexplicably subbed out Garland for Delly and Okoro for Wade (this dumbfounded me, when Curry was staying on the floor and Okoro should have stayed with him)

With Delly on him instead of Okoro, Curry hit THREE 30+ ft 3's on like 3 straight possessions with the Refs blessing him to create space (including the no call charge on Delly and stepback)

Where was I?...

Sexton, subs, not the reason for +/-

This was introduced in the game thread last night and I didn't have the archive at my disposal to refute it. I watched the full game again and saw one possession early in the 2nd where Sexton created a wide open shot for Delly who passed it up, other than that, he was singularly focused on scoring buckets and coming to the ball with his arm in the air like Dion Waiters and I believe that more contributed to his team worse +/-

Kevin Love did the entire team no favors last night by not even trying in the second half, but Collin compounded that by playing like rookie year Sexton for the first night in months.
 
Basketball-reference.com summarizes every game with four factors: eFG:, TOV%, ORB% and FT/FGA.

Let‘s score Collin on these metrics.

eFG%: 60.5%, second to Allen who took seven shots to Collin’s 19. GSW was 60.3% vs Cavs 49.4%. Collin was quite efficient last night.

TOV% - Sexton had zero turnovers. So the only times he stopped the ball was to take 19 shots or to go to the line. Didn‘t turn the ball over once.

ORB% - 6.1%, second to Delly. He had 2 ORBs, tied for team lead and two more that Dean and Kevin combined.

FT/FGA- 7/19, second to Allen and Delly. He canned 7 FT, 1/3 of the total team.

He led the team in 1, 2 and 3 point buckets (and scoring of course), ORBs and committed zero turnovers. 30 points on 19 shots, 4Rbs and zero turnovers. I’d like to know how many games in NBA history featured 30 points on less than 20 shots and zero turnovers.

Oh but he was the reason we lost last night. Sure. He’s the weak spot on this team of max contract players, The truth is most of our roster is made up of guys that would not get rotation minutes on playoff teams.

Speaking of which - the day he gets his next big contract will be glorious.
 
Basketball-reference.com summarizes every game with four factors: eFG:, TOV%, ORB% and FT/FGA.

Let‘s score Collin on these metrics.

eFG%: 60.5%, second to Allen who took seven shots to Collin’s 19. GSW was 60.3% vs Cavs 49.4%. Collin was quite efficient last night.

TOV% - Sexton had zero turnovers. So the only times he stopped the ball was to take 19 shots or to go to the line. Didn‘t turn the ball over once.

ORB% - 6.1%, second to Delly. He had 2 ORBs, tied for team lead and two more that Dean and Kevin combined.

FT/FGA- 7/19, second to Allen and Delly. He canned 7 FT, 1/3 of the total team.

He led the team in 1, 2 and 3 point buckets (and scoring of course), ORBs and committed zero turnovers. 30 points on 19 shots, 4Rbs and zero turnovers. I’d like to know how many games in NBA history featured 30 points on less than 20 shots and zero turnovers.

Oh but he was the reason we lost last night. Sure. He’s the weak spot on this team of max contract players, The truth is most of our roster is made up of guys that would not get rotation minutes on playoff teams.

Speaking of which - the day he gets his next big contract will be glorious.
Ok Ms Sexton. Your son is going to get paid.
 

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